Tag: Recruitment Technology

From Shiny Objects to Real Solutions: Rebecca Carr on TA Tech

Post author By Kyle Lagunas
Post date December 17, 2024

On this episode of Transformation Realness, I’m joined by the fabulous Rebecca Carr, CEO of SmartRecruiters, to talk about shaking up talent acquisition with personalized hiring workflows, API-first platforms, and tools so intuitive they feel like unlocking your phone.

With a deep history in product innovation and a fresh CEO perspective, Rebecca is laser-focused on three themes: meeting users where they are, empowering creativity through smart systems, and designing recruiting tools that keep pace with the speed of work today. Hiring shouldn’t feel like a chore — and Rebecca is here to make sure it doesn’t.

From making managers’ lives easier to scaling for global needs, Rebecca’s vision is exactly what this space needs right now. If you’re ready to reimagine recruiting technology for today’s fast-paced world, this episode is a must-listen.

Hiring Should Feel Effortless

Recruiting tech has evolved, but let’s not kid ourselves — it’s still clunky in too many places. It’s a pain Rebecca is all too familiar with herself, from her background in TA and experiences building out the SmartRecruiters team. “I’m hiring a CMO. And I’m an ATS creator — and the last thing I want to go do is log into my ATS and provide feedback,” she says. “I just want to do it in Slack or I want to do it on my phone or something like that.”

That’s where SmartRecruiters is flipping the script. Rebecca’s focus is on meeting users where they are‌ — ‌whether that’s integrating seamlessly with Slack, Teams or even a retail manager’s phone. It’s about cutting out unnecessary steps and making hiring feel natural.

“We’ve invested a lot in the tech stack so that our customers can customize user experiences,” Rebecca says. “Because change management is hard. The last thing your users want to do right now is [have to] sit on a webinar and learn how to use their recruiting tool.”

API-First Platforms: Building Smarter, Not Bigger

Rebecca knows that trying to do everything for everyone is a recipe for mediocrity. Instead, SmartRecruiters is leaning into its strength as a recruiting workflow orchestration engine, partnering strategically to bring the best tools to the table.

“If I could snap my fingers and do one thing to SmartRecruiters right now, I would make it 100% API-able,” Rebecca shares. Customers love what SmartRecruiters offers but need flexibility to tweak it for regional quirks. Her answer: design systems. You don’t like that box? Delete it. Want to make it work with ServiceNow? Done. It’s all about giving users the power to create experiences that fit their world, not the other way around.

This approach isn’t about shiny object syndrome: it’s about intentional partnerships that align with a shared vision. Rebecca’s goal for SmartRecruiters is to provide solutions for high-volume, high-velocity hiring at a global scale. “I’m a recruiting workflow orchestration engine,” Rebecca says. “My specialty is orchestrating a beautiful recruiting process.”

Innovating for a New Era

Rebecca’s leadership philosophy is as modern as her approach to tech. She understands that great innovation starts with the right mindset‌ — ‌and the right people. “We’re in an interesting moment. The people that approach with creativity are, generally speaking, people that are innovators at heart, creatives at heart, and those are great product and engineering leaders,” Rebecca says.

That’s why she’s focused on building a team that not only dreams big but executes with precision. “I have invested a lot in finding the right people to be the product and engineering bench,” she says. “Because it’s not even about building innovative products, but also doing it in a really efficient way.” For Rebecca, innovation goes beyond ideas — it’s about transforming them into scalable solutions that drive measurable impact.

At SmartRecruiters, this spirit of innovation touches every part of the business, from reimagining talent acquisition strategies to addressing global challenges and fostering strong customer partnerships. The result is a forward-thinking organization equipped to tackle today’s complex recruiting landscape.

Rebecca isn’t just making waves in talent acquisition. She’s redefining what’s possible. From personalized hiring workflows to API-first platforms, her vision is turning recruiting from a clunky chore into an intuitive, user-friendly experience.

Like Rebecca says, “We’re back.” And honestly? We’re here for it.

Catch this episode for all the tea on the future of recruiting tech, and as always, stay bold, stay real, and keep making work better for everyone.

People in This Episode

Rebecca Carr: LinkedIn

Transcript

Kyle Lagunas:

Hello, my little blueberries. Welcome back to Transformation Realness. It’s the only show all about people who are doing their best to make the world work less sh*tty and have the guts to share their story: the good, the bad, and most of all, the real. It’s produced in partnership with RepCap and hosted by yours truly, dazzling, defiant, demonstrably insane, Kyle Lagunas, Head of Strategy and Principal Analyst at Aptitude Research, the leading boutique research firm covering HR tech and transformation.

Get into it!

Today we’ve got Rebecca Carr. Yes, that Rebecca Carr, who is now rocking the CEO title at SmartRecruiters. She’s been a product leader, an innovator, and now she’s in the driver’s seat to make some serious moves in the world of talent acquisition. From creating ATS magic to spearheading new strategies, Rebecca is here to push the boundaries of how we think about hiring.

And spoiler alert — incremental change just isn’t her thing.

Also, featuring my very good friend and dear business partner Madeline Laurano, who as you know is the founder of Aptitude Research. All right, well, so I have to say, isn’t it wild that all three of us, Rebecca, Madeline, and I, live in the Boston area, but we had to fly all the way to Las Vegas to see each other in the flesh? And somebody got stuck in a middle seat again, but I digress. Let’s focus on what really matters, big ideas about the future of work. Let’s dive in.

Welcome back to Transformation Realness Live from HR Tech. I brought an extra special friend today. Hi Madeline.

Madeline Laurano:

Hi, Kyle.

Kyle Lagunas:

How you doing?

Madeline Laurano:

I am good.

Kyle Lagunas:

Are you ready to interview one of our favorite people?

Madeline Laurano:

I am. I’m very excited for this.

Kyle Lagunas:

I am too. Hi, Rebecca. Welcome to the show.

Rebecca Carr:

Hi. I’m happy to be here.

Kyle Lagunas:

It’s so weird that we all live in the Boston Metro…

Rebecca Carr:

We do.

Kyle Lagunas:

… And we’re seeing each other in the flesh in Las Vegas. What are we doing here?

Rebecca Carr:

I know.

Madeline Laurano:

Kyle and I have not seen each other in person in months.

Kyle Lagunas:

Literally.

Rebecca Carr:

Really? Seriously?

Kyle Lagunas:

Yes.

Rebecca Carr:

Oh, well, Boston’s like the best city to get together in too.

Kyle Lagunas:

I know. There’s literally always traffic. I left my house at 5:30 or 5:15 yesterday morning, and there was traffic.

Rebecca Carr:

Really?

Kyle Lagunas:

What are we doing here?

Rebecca Carr:

There was none when I was getting- I think we were on the same flight, by the way.

Kyle Lagunas:

Delta?

Rebecca Carr:

Yeah. 7:00 AM?

Kyle Lagunas:

I was dead.

Rebecca Carr:

I didn’t catch you, but I was like, I think I saw you running through the airport and I was like, I wonder if he was on my flight and I didn’t say hi.

Madeline Laurano:

He was in the middle seat.

Rebecca Carr:

That would’ve been-

Kyle Lagunas:

I was in the middle seat.

Rebecca Carr:

Oh, no.

Kyle Lagunas:

Like a peasant.

Rebecca Carr:

To be fair. I’m on a middle seat going home. I wanted to go direct.

Kyle Lagunas:

Don’t they know how important you are?

Madeline Laurano:

You’re a CEO.

Kyle Lagunas:

Speaking of important.

Madeline Laurano:

I am.

Kyle Lagunas:

Mama’s got a new job, right?

Rebecca Carr:

Yeah. It doesn’t feel that different.

Kyle Lagunas:

It’s like Facebook official now.

Rebecca Carr:

It is. It’s Facebook official.

Kyle Lagunas:

Well, talk to us about it.

Rebecca Carr:

Yeah, I’ve been with this company for so long. I started in 2014, ran product, launched the original product, went through all that hiring success phase. Remember the book?

Kyle Lagunas:

Yeah.

Rebecca Carr:

And all the conferences?

Kyle Lagunas:

Yeah.

Rebecca Carr:

It was great. Left. Came back two years later. Ran product at a interesting moment. We were going through a lot of transition. Jerome had just stepped down. CEO- doesn’t feel that different though. We’re such a good community within SmartRecruiters. Our people are really high tenure, lots of passion for this space, lots of former recruiters, people that have a lot of customer empathy. It feels right and this is a critical moment for us, too.

We have to make some changes as it relates to how we think about the recruiting space. There’s a lot of urgency around adopting new technology, and I want to be a leader there. I don’t want to sit around anymore and wait to make some incremental change to a button or a color. I think we need to do something really different and that’s what we’re out to do.

Kyle Lagunas:

We love TA. It’s where we’ve always lived. But it’s also probably the most crowded corner of the market.

Rebecca Carr:

Oh, yeah.

Kyle Lagunas:

It’s changed now, but if you had a use case, you got $20 million seed round to build an AI-enabled enterprise-grade platform, BS BS. For you all to stay the course, we were here for it, but you also, you want to change the course, right? You want to be a part of catalyzing that change?

Rebecca Carr:

Yeah.

Kyle Lagunas:

Talk to us about it.

Rebecca Carr:

We’re… In my session in a little bit. I’m going to talk a little bit about the journey generally speaking of ATS. Like my first ATS that I built, the customer use case was I need to be organized. That’s all I care about. I’ve had so much paper, I have no idea what to do with it. No one’s helping me, bring it online. It’s how the Teleos of the world show up and things like that.

But tech just listened, delivered, but didn’t strive to do better until customers showed up and said, by the way, I’m in a war for talent. You need to be in the cloud and lower cost and more collaborative and easier to use. Thus, the SmartRecruiters of the world show up and they do a good job.

But now the whole market is stalling and trying to wait and see what AI and intelligence do for it. Meanwhile, user expectation — candidates, but also hiring managers, people in the field — is accelerating past us. I think we need to start thinking about hiring as not this long process where you have to click through a bunch of buttons, but how is it personalized, adaptive? How does it meet your flow of work? I am hiring a CMO right now. I’m ATS creator.

Kyle Lagunas:

We know somebody.

Madeline Laurano:

We know somebody.

Rebecca Carr:

You know somebody?

Madeline Laurano:

We do.

Rebecca Carr:

Give me referrals.

Madeline Laurano:

We have a good recommendation.

Rebecca Carr:

I’m hiring a CMO, and I’m an ATS creator, and the last thing I want to go do is log into my ATS and provide feedback. I just want to do it in Slack or I want to do it on my phone or something like that. That is very common. TA teams have been reduced by near 50%, at least in our customer base. Hiring managers have to do a lot more and they have to do it faster and there’s a lot of urgency around their hires and tech isn’t showing up for that moment.

I think that this next generation for us is going to be about that. Meeting the users where they are. It’s going to be about more personalization. We’ve invested a lot in the tech stack so that our customers can customize user experiences. Because change management is hard. The last thing your users want to do right now is also sit on a webinar and learn how to use their recruiting tool. They just want to just like the same way you open your iPhone and suddenly face ID exists. That’s what they want hiring to feel like.

Kyle Lagunas:

But they do want to come to a webinar of research-

Rebecca Carr:

Oh, yeah. That maybe.

Kyle Lagunas:

…with Madeline and Kyle at Aptitude.

Rebecca Carr:

Of course. But certainly not on how to create a job. No, that feels bad.

Madeline Laurano:

That feels bad. It’s interesting because, let’s talk about ATS market for a little bit. We all love it. We have been in the ATS market for a long time. SmartRecruiters has taken different approaches. I think when SmartRecruiters first came out into the scene, it was the cool provider. Everybody would talk about, okay, you can invest in your HCM suite, you can get a best of breed, traditional best of breed, or you can get the cool provider at the time, and that was SmartRecruiters.

Things have shifted in the market and we’re seeing a lot of companies saying, okay, we’re just going to go with our HCM provider. Now we’re seeing new providers like Paradox and Eightfold launching ATSs. The market’s changing quite a bit even though it’s stale. We talk about [inaudible] right now. The approach for SmartRecruiters, in the past, you’ve taken was to build this huge ecosystem of partners, build out a marketplace.

Then you went in a different direction and said, we can actually do all those things as well. You built programmatic, you built sourcing, you built a lot of these capabilities in one platform to do more with less. What do you see as you look at your new announcement in SmartRecruiters and the new vision that you have? Is it going to be a partner ecosystem? Is it going to be, do everything and partner where you can?

Rebecca Carr:

Yeah. Two comments on that because when you describe it that way, it sounds like shiny object syndrome, which frankly is we’re not alone. There’s a lot of vendors in the market that I think-

Kyle Lagunas:

It’s a lot of shiny stuff right now.

Rebecca Carr:

Yeah, exactly.

Madeline Laurano:

And you’re responding to what the buyers are looking for. Sometimes they’re looking for one at the time and it shifts.

Rebecca Carr:

Or just investments in adjacencies. Some of our direct competitors have gone in directions where I’m just like, oh, I wouldn’t have thought about that. But it’s an opportunity to respond to customer need and they run at it. For us, a couple of things. One, focus is going to be important for us in the next chapter. We have a problem to solve, but we can’t solve that problem for everyone. I think the approach we’re taking with this product strategy is, how do we think about specifically high-volume, high-velocity hiring at a global scale and how do we make that more agent-enabled?

Not just for the candidate. Candidate engagement, candidate experience, obviously a lot of opportunity for AI. But for the hirer, like the store manager sitting on the ground that doesn’t care about the recruiting tool, but they care about hiring. It’s a more focused strategy that I think is not something where you see as many of the HCM providers, because in those circumstances they don’t have the big Workdays. Or if they have the SAP, they don’t engage with it. Because decentralized has not historically been a real vertical for them.

The other way that I think about it is, I’m a recruiting workflow orchestration engine. My specialty is orchestrating a beautiful recruiting process. I’m not going to be a specialist in people analytics, even though that’s important to understanding how you should use a recruiting workflow effectively. I’m not going to be a specialist in job distribution or programmatic advertising or in Zoom interview transcription.

Probably just not going to be where I go. But there are great best-of-breed vendors out there that my UI should be able to adapt to so that I can give a great experience at scale like that, leveraging the best of a lot of people. But that’s going to require that I don’t just go and see, hey, anybody that wants to can be a partner of SmartRecruiters and all of you are going to have the same experience.

I’m going to have to actually go and build relationships with people in a more focused way to say, does your product strategy align to mine? Are we going to go to market together effectively? Are we going to make sure our customers are mutually successful? It’s a more strategic way of approaching ecosystem, but it’s one that I’m very open about. It’s critical. It’s just not going to be the same way that I think we did it the first time, which is here’s some APIs anybody’s that’s interested.

Kyle Lagunas:

I feel like we saw that play out really well. I felt like the intentional ecosystem design. I was at Beamery when this happened. Workday had just invested in Beamery. Paradox was coming up, HiredScore was coming up, and the three of us were going to market together to Workday customers. They were like, well, great. Part of the pitch here from HRIT was, we’re going to go on Workday recruiting, but then we can build our own preferred tech stack on top of this. Look, we have these partners that all do different things. I think the intentionality is, I absolutely love to hear it. You also were one of the first providers to really lean into the hiring manager. Do you remember their hiring manager mobile app?

Rebecca Carr:

Oh yeah.

Madeline Laurano:

Yeah.

Kyle Lagunas:

Isn’t so fun that mobile apps are coming back?

Rebecca Carr:

There might be better applications of that in the future.

Kyle Lagunas:

I hope so. I hope so. Not that it was bad before.

Rebecca Carr:

No.

Kyle Lagunas:

I actually think it was HR Tech, like 2012 or something that I did a writeup on that when I was a blogger.

Rebecca Carr:

Oh, yeah. That is why H&M and Primark and people like that buy SmartRecruiters, because none of those people are sitting at a desk. They need something.

Kyle Lagunas:

Guess what? Those are still enterprise companies. We’re not talking about solving problems for just a small franchisee.

Rebecca Carr:

No, actually, where we have accelerated as a business over the last several years is really international scale. We are as much a European company as we are a North American company right now. It has to do with a decision, frankly, that Jerome made a long time ago where I thought he was crazy. He’s like, “We’re just going to go global really fast.” I was like, “Oh, but we haven’t conquered one market yet.” He was like, “Nope, we’re going to do it anyway.” As a result, we’ve been very successful at supporting multinational, and that is a hard thing to go do. Even if the best competitors on this floor decided they wanted to lean into that, it would take them years to really establish. Me keeping that gap is important. You’ll still see us lean into international, international, international.

Madeline Laurano:

You don’t just have customers that are international customers. You have feet on the ground, you have conferences that are international.

Rebecca Carr:

Yeah, conferences. Yeah, we just launched those again.

Kyle Lagunas:

I know. I’m so glad.

Rebecca Carr:

I know. They’re so fun. We throw a good party here at SmartRecruiters.

Madeline Laurano:

You throw a great party. Are you going to be doing analyst days at these conferences?

Rebecca Carr:

Oh, yes. Well, we did one day this year. We did EMEA. We’re doing APAC in two weeks and next year we’ll do more. We’re going to extend them out. The content’s fantastic. The energy’s good. It’s who we are. As much as we’re a vendor to a lot of our customers, customer relationships have always been a key pillar of our success. We really enjoy spending time with them, and I think that those conferences are a good opportunity for us all to come together and celebrate.

Kyle Lagunas:

Yeah, it’s community. Are you seeing as much? Because Rebecca had mentioned maybe I want to do this in Slack. Maybe I don’t want to log into my at ATS. I’m seeing a lot more vendors that are like, you know what? Remember UX/UI was a big thing? Now they’re like, you know what? We actually want to be interface agnostic. Bring your own interface, choose your own engagement portal. However you want to come, we’re ready for you. The API strategy shifts not just to background check providers and assessment providers. It’s actually into these enterprise systems.

Madeline Laurano:

100%. I think I got an email from a corporation a couple of weeks ago and they saw a big HCM provider announced a collaboration tool, but it wasn’t integrated with Teams. For them that was a deal breaker. It is, and I think with co-pilots, what we’re seeing with a of co-pilots and assistants right now is it’s great to have in the product, but what value [do] you get out of having that in your work tech?

Rebecca Carr:

Yes.

Kyle Lagunas:

Yes. That’s a layer into that orchestration concept. It’s like, I’m orchestrating? Then I’ve got to account for anybody’s user preference.

Rebecca Carr:

If I could snap my fingers and do one thing to SmartRecruiters right now, I would make it 100% API-able. I’m close. I’m getting there. It’s part of the strategy. But really our customers are saying, “I thought- I love you guys. I thought I could buy a fully productized end-to-end and I could push it out to my field, but the reality is in this country versus this country, I do need that box gone. How do I get rid of it?” Well, design systems. You can just delete it or create your own experiences. You can push them into platforms like ServiceNow, is a good example.

Madeline Laurano:

Where they spend their time.

Rebecca Carr:

Where they spend their time.

Madeline Laurano:

It makes complete sense.

Rebecca Carr:

That is a big- where with our announcements this fall we’re launching with a bunch of design partners and a big piece of what they’re leaning into is that.

Kyle Lagunas:

Yeah, Rebecca, your history in the space I think really sets you up as a chief executive officer at this time. You are not coming in with just completely fresh eyes. We do need to know the space. There are some that come in and they pound their chest about we’re not HR people, we’re not TA people, we’re technology people. It’s like, well, that’s cool, but right now you need to know what your customer’s up against.

Rebecca Carr:

You got to learn from the mistakes of the past right now.

Madeline Laurano:

You’ve got the expertise. I have a question-

Kyle Lagunas:

You need to know the market in ecosystem. Yeah.

Madeline Laurano:

I have a question about this new role for you. Because we’re seeing more CEOs that are coming from a product background and that’s not something we’ve seen before. That would be like, wow, now there’s a lot of, Paradox, Adams had a product, so we’re seeing a lot of examples of that now. We’ve got AI and generative AI now completely changing how you think about tech. How does this change how you approach your team and who you’re hiring? Are you looking for a completely different skill set than you were as head of product now as CEO? Or is this just an extension and an evolution?

Rebecca Carr:

Well, certainly I feel like I have invested a lot in finding the right people to be the product and engineering bench. Because it’s not even about building innovative products, but also doing it in a really efficient way. You need to start looking at an R&D organization as, okay, you’re going to have to innovate. You’re going to have to do great things, but you can’t add one person. You need to start practicing what you preach and adopting AI technology in order to make yourself more efficient while also driving growth.

Because we’re in an interesting moment. The people that approach with that creativity are generally speaking, people that are innovators at heart, creatives at heart, and those are great product and engineering leaders. When I came in, I focused on those roles first and my SVP product, she’s amazing. She was a founder that sold the HiBob and just loves this space, loves solving this problem and loves a data problem. Which this is going to, in the new world where UIs disappear, this is a data industry.

Kyle Lagunas:

Where AIs are talking to Ais?

Rebecca Carr:

Yes. You’ve got to be highly technical and you need to be ready to educate. But educate in a way that the market can understand-

Kyle Lagunas:

Enablement.

Rebecca Carr:

… a relatable way. I’ve leaned in a lot to that. You see a lot more product speakers generally speaking, versus CROs and CMOs. But I’ve had to also balance that with a C-suite that are pure operators that can think through not just how to drive efficiency in R&D, but in sales and marketing. How do we think through balancing PLG motions, like consumption motions with subscription software? Those are good product and revenue problems. But not your tried and true seller that’s just sold enterprise software for the last 20 years. It’s a different moment and profile and feel like it’s coming together. We’ve got new CFO, new CMO coming in. We’ve got our new product leader, obviously. Good engineering DNA, tenure. Yeah, I feel good about it. I got a good bench.

Kyle Lagunas:

Literally, you’re such a badass. I’m sitting here.

Madeline Laurano:

I love it.

Kyle Lagunas:

Got it.

Madeline Laurano:

Yeah, I remember seeing you probably at the last hiring success event that I was at. I know there were probably a couple after the last one, and you were the star of the show. You gave the keynote, the opening keynote, you opened it up, you led the analyst session. Jerome was there obviously. We were both on a panel with Jerome at that event.

Kyle Lagunas:

Jerry walked in as the panel was beginning.

Madeline Laurano:

I love Jerry. I loved that panel. That was a great panel. But you were the star of the show and you kicked off.

Kyle Lagunas:

Absolutely.

Madeline Laurano:

Jerome was setting the stage. I feel like this has always been the vision. The vision has always been you would be the seat.

Rebecca Carr:

It’s funny, when this moment came to be, he just looked at me- because, I had left, we had a moment when I first left where I was like, “You know what? Seven years, Jerome. I love this space. I need to learn something different about another space so I can understand how to balance what TA brings versus what it doesn’t and to learn from the best of other industries.” When I came back and they put me in this role, he looked at me and he was just like, didn’t say anything. Just on the Zoom, just smiled. He was proud, I think.

Kyle Lagunas:

Yeah, proud papa.

Rebecca Carr:

But I think that’s the case for a lot of the people that sit in leadership roles at SmartRecruiters now. There’s a lot of tenure. Even my chief of staff is eight, nine years of the business, things like that. There’s a lot of people that want to see this through that really want to change this industry. That starts with me. Frankly, we’ve gotten a lot of energy as a business from seeing product become the centerpiece.

Kyle Lagunas:

It’s like revitalized.

Rebecca Carr:

We’re back.

Madeline Laurano:

You’ve been quiet for a while and I feel like you’re back.

Rebecca Carr:

We’re back.

Kyle Lagunas:

Everybody’s holding their breath for a minute.

Madeline Laurano:

Yeah. The nice thing is you’re not cleaning up a bad reputation. You are just a company that went quiet for a few years and now you’re re-entering-

Rebecca Carr:

Yeah, there was some change and transition, but I like to see momentum. I thrive from winning and seeing success and all of that. I think that’s what the future holds for a couple of people on this floor.

Kyle Lagunas:

Yeah. Well you definitely-

Rebecca Carr:

It’s going to be an interesting 18 to 24 months.

Kyle Lagunas:

It really is. You know what? You’re making it really hard for us to be industry agnostic right now, industry neutral, because we love you. We’re rooting for you.

Madeline Laurano:

Yes. We’re all in Boston now.

Kyle Lagunas:

I know.

Rebecca Carr:

I know. I love you guys too. Dinner on, I don’t know, we’ll go on Newbury Street. Do something fun.

Kyle Lagunas:

Yeah, can we never meet in Vegas again.

Okay, that is a wrap, little chickadees. Huge thanks to Rebecca for sharing her story and her vision for shaking up talent acquisition. And big thanks to Madeline to joining us for this special little convo. Honestly, I have a ton of notes from this. Personalized hiring workflows. API first platforms. Making recruiting tools feel as easy as unlocking your phone. Yeah, I’m really into this.

But I’m also really into Rebecca.

Her leadership isn’t just inspiring, it’s exactly what I think the industry needs right now. She’s not here for business as usual, and neither are we at Aptitude. This was a super cool, honestly, just very down-to-earth conversation with somebody that we admire. Rebecca, thank you for spending some time with us today. We will catch you and all of our friends here on the next episode of Transformation Realness. Until then, stay real, stay bold and make all your recruiting tools actually make your life easier. Until next time, this is Kyle signing off. Bye.

Tags Recruitment, Recruitment Technology

Blog Podcast

No More Quick Fixes: Why Top Solutions Are Integrated

Post author By Kyle Lagunas
Post date December 10, 2024

On this episode of Transformation Realness, I’m joined by none other than Yvette Cameron, Senior Vice President of Cloud HCM Product Strategy at Oracle. Yvette is a visionary (and certified badass) reshaping workforce technology with a focus on what actually matters: skills, culture, and empowering managers to lead in a rapidly changing world.

We tackle big questions about how skills fit into the bigger picture of talent strategies, the challenges facing today’s managers, and the incredible potential of generative AI to transform work — without getting lost in the hype. If you’ve ever wondered whether technology can solve your talent problems, let me just say: it can help — but no app is going to fix a broken culture.

If you’re ready to think bigger about the future of work, this conversation is for you.

Skills Aren’t Just for TA and L&D

If you’ve rolled your eyes at every “skills-based” solution on the market, you’re not alone — I’ve been right there with you. But Yvette sets the record straight: “There are so many ‘solutions’ … on the market that focus on skills-based recruiting, or skills-based learning,” she says. “And when you have these siloed systems that are focused on that one process, you can improve the process. But skills don’t stop when you hire people.” You need skills data for scheduling, planning, upskilling, budgeting — it’s about integration, not silos.

The real magic happens when skills data becomes foundational across the organization. From aligning workforce planning with future needs to creating intentional upskilling opportunities, Yvette says it’s time to stop thinking of skills as just a recruitment or learning tool — and start using them to drive strategy.

That’s why, under Yvette’s visionary eye, Oracle has adopted a more comprehensive approach that lets companies aggregate skills into a system of record. Collecting skills data across the spectrum of HR processes provides data that’s richer and more accessible. The result? You have the foundations of a strategy, not just an idea.

Managers Need More Than “Self-Service”

Let’s talk about managers — the unsung heroes holding it all together. “Managers are the ones who know how the real work gets done, right?” Yvette says. “They know the tasks that their people have to perform. They know the unique skills and qualifications that they need.” While HR plays a critical role as architects of people strategy, we sometimes lose sight of the people on the other side.

New tools and processes are great, but managers are already overloaded, so anything we add needs to tie back to a clear business benefit — and especially answer your managers’ “What’s in it for me?”

When HR leaders tell her they’ve adopted self-service modules to make the managers’ lives easier, for example, Yvette is quick to counter that assumption. “I say, ‘Is it really self-service? Are you putting your work on your managers, or are you giving them direct access to the information and support, and processes that they need?’” she says. “And I think that’s a fundamental mind-shift, right? Is it HR work, or is it really empowering managers?”

And this is where technology can shine. AI can nudge managers with reminders to check in with their team or even suggest agenda topics for those meetings. But as Yvette wisely notes, no tech can replace empathy, trust and a willingness to share talent across teams. Culture trumps tech every time.

GenAI: Transformative, But Not a Cure-All

It wouldn’t be Transformation Realness without a little GenAI talk. Yvette’s take? Game-changing potential, but tread carefully. Oracle’s approach includes agents that automate low-risk tasks (like scheduling) and provide managers with real-time answers and insights. But Yvette stresses that people are still core to the process. “We don’t like to take the human out of the loop,” she says.

And for all its promise, GenAI is no silver bullet. If your managers still have a talent hoarding attitude, for instance, introducing an AI-enabled talent marketplace won’t have the impact you want it to. “That’s a culture and a business process that has to be addressed,” she says.

Yvette brought the fire in this conversation, reminding us that transformation is about more than just tools — it’s about building the right foundation, empowering people and addressing the cultural barriers holding us back.

Stay tuned for more Transformation Realness, and remember: transformation isn’t something you buy — it’s something you build.

People in This Episode

Yvette Cameron: LinkedIn

Transcript

Kyle Lagunas:

Hello, my little blueberries. Welcome to another very special episode of Transformation Realness, the only show all about people who are working to make the world of work less shitty, and who are brave enough to tell their stories: the good, the bad, and most of all, the real.

It’s produced in partnership with Rep Cap and hosted by none other than yours truly, the ever so charming and ecclesiastical, Kyle Lagunas, Head of Strategy and Principal Analyst at Aptitude Research. The boutique firm leading the charge in HR tech in transformation.

Get into it!

Before I jump in, I have to say a special thank you to the team over at Glider AI, whose sponsorship made our Talent Transformation Ecosystem, EP possible. Thanks, fam.

Today’s guest is one of my favorite people in our industry, a longtime friend and personal mentor, Yvette Cameron, Senior Vice President of Cloud HCM Product Strategy at Oracle, just this tiny little tech startup you’ve never heard of. No, seriously, this powerhouse is shaping the future of workforce technology, making sure it’s not just buzzwords and feature dumps, but real strategies that move the needle in our space.

From skills-based workforce planning to the growing influence of GenAI, Yvette is here to share with us what’s really going on in the space. Plus there’s some super fabulous insight about the challenges that managers today are dealing [with], as they’re navigating this changing world themselves. Are we empowering them, or just giving them more stuff to do? Big questions, real answers, buckle up kids, this is going to be a good one.

I am joined by one of the baddest bitches in the space. Hi, Yvette Cameron.

Yvette Cameron:

Hello Kyle. So good to see you.

Kyle Lagunas:

Always good to see you. It’s always a pleasure.

Yvette Cameron:

I love being introduced as one of the baddest bitches. I actually really love that.

Kyle Lagunas:

But you know it’s so true. For those who don’t know, what is your job? What do you do?

Yvette Cameron:

So I’m the Senior Vice President for Oracle’s Cloud, HCM Product Strategy. So my team is out there visioning, “Where are we going to go in the next 12, 18, 24 months, three years?” Five years is a little more difficult. Things are changing so fast.

Kyle Lagunas:

I mean, especially now.

Yvette Cameron:

Yeah.

Kyle Lagunas:

I don’t even know if you can really do 18 months?

Yvette Cameron:

You can-

Kyle Lagunas:

Look at this last 18-month cycle.

Yvette Cameron:

I know, but you know what? Flexibility is the story, right? And a strong strategy for where the technology’s taking us.

Kyle Lagunas:

Yeah. Agility is the only way to be now, right? That’s where resilience comes from. Well, tell me about your session? What did you talk about?

Yvette Cameron:

I would love to talk about the session, but I actually want to start with the elephant in the room, Kyle? There’s something we have to cover first.

Kyle Lagunas:

Oh, my God. What is it?

Yvette Cameron:

It’s huge. The fact that you were on the cover of New York Times recently? Oh, my gosh. I looked and I saw your face and I was like, “Wait a minute”-

Kyle Lagunas:

Man.

Yvette Cameron:

… “isn’t that Kyle?”

Kyle Lagunas:

You know.

Yvette Cameron:

Sweetie? So congratulations on that.

Kyle Lagunas:

Thank you. We’ve been friends for a long time. For those who don’t know, I started as a little humble blogger. I actually have worked really hard to get where… We both have, right? But it was so validating, it was really cool. You know the coolest part? They came to my house, girl? And while they’re taking my picture… Which by the way, I cleaned the entire house, and then he wanted to take pictures in the backyard.

Yvette Cameron:

And was that your cat there? I loved that.

Kyle Lagunas:

Yes. So we’re sitting there taking pictures, my cat just walks over and sits down and he’s like, “What’s up dorks? What are you guys doing?” He looked so regal. He’s just like… And my arms look huge. I’m like…

Yvette Cameron:

That was awesome. So congratulations. Well, I didn’t like the way that they said that you had a little rant going on about [managing HR].

Kyle Lagunas:

Whatever.

Yvette Cameron:

So whatever. But it was fantastic-

Kyle Lagunas:

That was a microaggression-

Yvette Cameron:

… congratulations.

Kyle Lagunas:

… against gays.

Yvette Cameron:

Oh. Okay well, that’s another podcast.

Kyle Lagunas:

I know. That is another podcast. All right, but talk to me about your session? Seriously, because it’s like standing room only at HR Tech, I mean that’s huge. Especially because… And no offense, but you’ve been an analyst… People don’t always want to go and hear from vendors?

Yvette Cameron:

Yeah.

Kyle Lagunas:

Right?

Yvette Cameron:

You know, when I’m speaking and when most of my team is speaking, we really try to bring the thought leadership, and really how do we succeed in this market? Of course, there’s a bit of how our technology can support these strategies.

Kyle Lagunas:

That’s why you’ve chosen where you land it, right?

Yvette Cameron:

Exactly. Exactly. And so my session was Five Keys to Unlocking Workforce Potential, and of course it comes down to experience. Which is also supported by today’s latest generative AI capabilities, ensuring a solid skills foundation to drive engagement and opportunity across the organization. Experience is also around empowering managers to be more people-centric-

Kyle Lagunas:

Work, yes.

Yvette Cameron:

… and empathetic leaders. And so we talked about that.

Kyle Lagunas:

Yes.

Yvette Cameron:

And then of course, really focused on the data of the organization. And one of the biggest challenges I think HR has, is moving from data to insights, to taking action-

Kyle Lagunas:

Oh, yeah.

Yvette Cameron:

… on that data. So it was a really compelling session. I think the HR Tech people recorded it, and hopefully it’ll be available online somewhere soon.

Kyle Lagunas:

I’m so sorry I missed it. I had to go to an-

Yvette Cameron:

I will send it to you first thing.

Kyle Lagunas:

Oh, yeah. I mean honestly, I want to see the deck. I know, especially because I love when thought leadership is being driven by somebody that’s so accomplished, but also sits and has such a huge purview in the market. Almost 100% aligns with research that I’m doing. It’s really validating. I mean, so I’m not going to lie, I was getting really sick of skills-based everything. I was getting extremely cynical the last year, because it seemed like the new employee experience.

It was just like a catch-all, we were talking like, “Oh, this is going to make magic. It’s going to do all kinds of things.” And I just really wasn’t seeing it. Especially because I saw solution providers, not Oracle, but I did see some solution providers in the space that were almost making false promises, over simplifying this. They were saying, “Oh, if you buy our software, you’ll have skills-based everything.” Right? And you and I know that doesn’t work, so I was getting kind of cynical, I’m like, “I don’t know if this is a thing?” It’s a thing, baby.

Yvette Cameron:

It is a thing. But I think your cynicism is well-placed, because there are so many solutions, and I say that with quotes around it on the market, that focus on skills-based recruiting, or skills-based learning. And when you have these siloed systems that are focused on that one process, you can improve the process. But skills don’t stop when you hire people. You need to be able to schedule people according to skills, that’s critical in the healthcare industry.

You need to budget and plan, based on the skills need of the future. And that comes not just from the skills you’re bringing into the organization, but the way you’re driving upskilling, and learning and development. You need that skills-based learning. Skills-based learning alone isn’t enough, right? As there’s just skills even in how you’re managing your people, and the performance reviews-

Kyle Lagunas:

Oh, absolutely.

Yvette Cameron:

… and stuff that involves-

Kyle Lagunas:

Imagine if you’re-

Yvette Cameron:

… it’s just impossible.

Kyle Lagunas:

… only doing skills in learning, and then you’re not actually evaluating skills and performance?

Yvette Cameron:

Exactly. Exactly. So we talked about that in my session-

Kyle Lagunas:

Cool.

Yvette Cameron:

… yesterday, and one of our big points-

Kyle Lagunas:

That’s why it is ubiquitous, right?

Yvette Cameron:

It is. It is. And one of our press releases this year recently at our CloudWorld, was an announcement about how our investment in skills has broadened. So in the past, like many others, we took an approach of, “Here’s our skills ontology, here’s our AI that’s going to enrich the skills. And here’s how we have infused skills across everything in the HCM suite.”

But what we missed was the reality that there are still many organizations who, despite our being an end-to-end suite, are using that one solution outside, that’s in recruiting or learning or XYZ space, or multiple. I was talking with an organization the other day, who partners with an organization focused on the needs of manufacturing. The very unique skills, they have a subscription for that. Those change, there’s-

Kyle Lagunas:

Shifting landscape of skills needs in manufacturing.

Yvette Cameron:

Exactly. The shifting. And so our approach now, is that we are an open skills aggregation platform. And there’s a lot of goodness around that, and I won’t pitch that here on this podcast, but I will say-

Kyle Lagunas:

Oh, pitch baby. Just kidding.

Yvette Cameron:

… there are differences. I was talking to a couple of other analysts and unlike you, I’m hearing, “Oh, but everybody’s got skills. Everybody’s got AI and GenAI, everybody’s doing the same thing.” We’re not. The approach that the different vendors, and that Oracle is taking. I think especially because we’re not only an applications vendor, we’re a technology vendor.

Kyle Lagunas:

Oh, yeah.

Yvette Cameron:

It gives us the-

Kyle Lagunas:

With deep-

Yvette Cameron:

… opportunity to do things differently.

Kyle Lagunas:

… industry, vertical expertise.

Yvette Cameron:

Deep industry vertical-

Kyle Lagunas:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yvette Cameron:

… right. So I think this is a huge space. Skills are incredibly important for organizations to really make sure they’ve got that agility that we opened with, in the future.

Kyle Lagunas:

But also it enables the intentionality with workforce planning. I’m not just looking for heads, what are these people going to do? What are the skills that are… What skills risks do we have? Or what skills opportunities do we have, right?

Yvette Cameron:

Skills are changing so quickly. One of my quotes yesterday was that over 62% of the workforce is quiet quitting. Pretty disengaged. In fact, I read that in the UK that number is an astonishing 92%. And how do you combat disengagement? One thing, is, you reach out to your workforce and you say, “Hey, grow with us. If we up-skill in these areas, here are some opportunities for you to grow.” And without a skills infrastructure and across all of your opportunities, again in scheduling and learning, and the way you’re recruiting, et cetera, your just-

Kyle Lagunas:

But it’s just a good idea?

Yvette Cameron:

… in little pieces. That’s a great way to say it. It’s an idea as opposed to a strategy, that you can really execute on.

Kyle Lagunas:

Yeah. Well, so as you’re talking, I’m thinking, “All right, for a long time you’ve been watching the HCM space, for a long time you’ve been in the HCM space as a solution provider consultant, we’ve looked at what are foundational aspects of an HCM suite,” right? And you’re like, “All right, well, you got to have learning. You got to have TA, you got to have performance.” We’re thinking about the apps that you need to be that suite? You’ve got to be cloud, and maybe on-prem too?

There’s just things that we’ve thought about were core parts of that architecture. Actually, skills is a foundational aspect I think, of the modern HCM suite. You are that platform, and whether they’re going all in with you, or if they are plugging in other little things that are solving very specific problems that they just like. All of those things, skills needs to be relevant and standardized from learning to TA, from the front end to the back end. You know what I mean? And that’s more than just a philosophical conversation. That’s a data conversation, right?

Yvette Cameron:

It’s a data conversation for sure. And that’s why our approach is to bring skills that we deliver, or that you organically build through AI understanding how the skills-

Kyle Lagunas:

Or with a consultancy, you build your own special taxonomy?

Yvette Cameron:

You bring in libraries from different sources, an Eightfold or a TechWolf or any of these other solutions. Bring them into the same system of record where your people, your work data, and your job architecture is. Because when all of that is in the core system of record, then your opportunity to understand and really leverage it-

Kyle Lagunas:

And activate it?

Yvette Cameron:

… is phenomenal. You can activate it, exactly.

Kyle Lagunas:

So one thing that I also was noticing about skills, which is why I think it had in my opinion, a rough go at the beginning. Where you like… were going in stops and starts, there was a lot of conversation, but not a lot of impact. Part of it was, we were solving this at a use case level: TA, learning. And what we were doing over in TA, might not actually had bought in an alignment with our skills concepts across the business, or in learning too? Do you remember competency models, when these were the big things?

Yvette Cameron:

I do, it’s painful.

Kyle Lagunas:

How much work went into it? HR came over here and brought their… We really poured our hearts into this and our minds, we were feeling so good about what we built. And then we bring it to the business and they’re like, “What the hell is this?”

Yvette Cameron:

I know I told the story in my session yesterday. I remember back in the late ’90s, early 2000, getting my competency library CD, I would plug it in, we’d unplug it-

Kyle Lagunas:

Oh, my God. Yeah.

Yvette Cameron:

… and we’d get an update from the vendor every six to 12 months. Those days are so, so far gone.

Kyle Lagunas:

Well, but you know what’s not far gone? That HR still needs to make sure that what they’re innovating, and what they’re dreaming up, is relevant to the business?

Yvette Cameron:

You know, that’s absolutely true. But I would say that it’s not just on the shoulders of HR.

Kyle Lagunas:

Go on.

Yvette Cameron:

So managers are the ones who know how the real work gets done, right? They know the tasks that their people have to perform. They know the unique skills and qualifications that they need. HR is great, and needs to be setting foundational and top-down instructions on what we need in the organization. And what learning we need, and what specific skills for particular jobs. But more and more, work is shifting very rapidly, and it’s really the business leaders and the managers who know the actual tasks of the work.

And that’s one of the areas that we’ve invested, is making sure that managers are able to define their own needs for their team, what skills, and how do you build them? And think about it, HR is busy bringing libraries in and saying, “Here’s how you’re going to develop those skills.” But my strategy team is different than the strategy team over in customer support, or in supply chain, where at different levels of product maturity, we’ve got different responsibilities, a little bit than the other teams?

Kyle Lagunas:

Some things are more complicated than others.

Yvette Cameron:

And so I’m out there telling and assigning to my team, “I want you to build these particular skills,” and the sources might be going out and reading Kyle’s blog, or subscribing to this report, reading this book, and other things that HR has no insight to. Now, through the investments we’ve made in Oracle, managers can do that. And what HR gets from it, is a view across the enterprise of those hotspots of skills that are growing. They can see them associated with key roles.

They’re seeing the resources that are starting to surface, and when they see commonality, they can create new learning programs and skills development. So a bottoms-up approach to identifying what skills really are defining the work of the business that matter, and then looking for the resources. And if they’re going to be ad hoc, that’s great, but if there is a commonality, let’s spread that and make that an official HR mandated or supported policy.

Kyle Lagunas:

Yeah, let’s scale that out. Yeah. No, I really like it. I mean, honestly, there’s so much on the shoulder of managers these days, so much. And HR is bringing them something new, and it’s just more work, you know?

Yvette Cameron:

And it feels like-

Kyle Lagunas:

… “well, thanks for more HR stuff.” We got to make sure that this is not that. That’s what I said, it has to be relevant to the business, it has to have immediate tangible value. Otherwise it’s just like, “Well, why am I going to do this?”

Yvette Cameron:

So one of the first things when I talk to organizations, and they’re talking about their manager self-service, when I’m talking to an HR leader. I say, “Is it really self-service? Are you putting your work on your managers, or are you giving them direct access to the information and support, and processes that they need?” And I think that’s a fundamental mind-shift, right? Is it HR work, or is it really empowering managers?

Kyle Lagunas:

Yeah. But we haven’t been able to deliver that in the past. That’s why, I mean… Look, we’ve been studying innovation cycles, I don’t think I’ve ever seen anything as explosive as GenAI has been for us. And so talking about like, “Are we giving them immediate access?” Like agents, right? Where I’m going to have a conversational interface and I’m going to say, “Hey, so-and-so is about to go on maternity leave. What am I supposed to do as a manager for this?”

And I’m going to try to get my HR business partner to talk to me? No. I’m going to go to this chat interface and I’m going to say something in my natural language and it’s not going to say, “Go to the HR handbook, the employee handbook.” Instead it’s going to pull up that article, right? This one actually, I loved, like you guys were showing us, it’s going to give me an answer, and then I’ll actually be able to click to go in, and see where did this come from?

Yvette Cameron:

See the source doc then.

Kyle Lagunas:

Yeah. Where did-

Yvette Cameron:

Right.

Kyle Lagunas:

… this come from, right? So that enablement, that immediate access and support, that is transformative, right?

Yvette Cameron:

It really is. And this is where I caution the buyers in the market to really explore how their vendors are approaching this. Because I’ve seen across the 100 or so vendors here, I’ve seen cases where they’re using ChatGPT, or some other public model, and it’s not going to give you that context of the individual. And then they’ll say, “Well, but we’ll train it. We’ll train it on the customer’s data.” But where are they training it-

Kyle Lagunas:

Oh, that’s risky, baby.

Yvette Cameron:

… and is it exposed to the public model?

Kyle Lagunas:

Yeah.

Yvette Cameron:

So there’s things you have to get under the covers and look at. And I think GenAI is fantastic, and Oracle, we’re already on our 3rd kind of iteration of capabilities. We started a year ago, within a year of ChatGPT hitting the market and hitting 100 million users, we were delivering by last September, our first GenAI use cases. Creating job descriptions and summarizing performance evals, and a lot of productivity tools.

Now this year, in this last second half of 2024, we’re delivering agents. So we’ve got the benefit agents answering very specific questions, hiring support and other things. Now we’re working on what we’re calling agentic workflows, which are agents calling other agents to do end-to-end processes. And even for the first time, doing some reasoning, and perhaps automating some of that decision-making for you. We don’t like to take human out of the loop, but where it’s very low-risk, and the humans can still get involved-

Kyle Lagunas:

Well, the answer is yes or no.

Yvette Cameron:

… let’s streamline a talent review process schedule, for me. I don’t need to be in the loop of scheduling reviews with managers. That should be something that an agent takes care of. So we’re, again, moving fast and I think GenAI is transformational, but I can’t underestimate the core classic AI. So one of the things, again, yesterday was such a great session. You’ve got to see it when I get it.

Kyle Lagunas:

I’m so bummed, I’m mad at myself.

Yvette Cameron:

But one of the points I mentioned is that from a manager’s perspective, they’re overwhelmed. They’re being asked to do a lot, HR is putting self-service on their plate a lot. There’s so many changes, remote workers, and we’ve got to manage them, and be empathetic in ways that we maybe haven’t been trained for. And so even the classic AI can bring information forward to managers and say, “Hey, it’s time to schedule a check-in, and here’s recommendations on what you should meet about.”

And those recommendations are coming in our system from all the interactions across HCM. Kyle got a feedback, he’s got a milestone coming. His goal is here, he’s had a conversation over here. So from across all these different areas to build an agenda for the manager, and the employee receives the same recommendations. So that you are talking about things that are relevant, timely, and that will make an impact on the culture. So empowering managers for us, that’s what that’s about. Making them better, more human-centric leaders.

Kyle Lagunas:

I mean, I think it tracks to what HR needs to be doing anyway? If you look at that role, that is a critical role for the success of the evolution of any HR strategy, right? And look, they’re the ones that are moving the business forward. If you are delighting in supporting that stakeholder, talk about credibility, talk about trust. We need to be building that up right now. A lot’s depending on them.

Yvette Cameron:

Especially I would say now, and I think we’ve seen a lot of promotion of managers, of people who did a good job at their-

Kyle Lagunas:

At their job?

Yvette Cameron:

At their job, but they weren’t necessarily trained as leaders. And so how do we use the technology to support it?

Kyle Lagunas:

But also leadership in the workplace has completely changed in the last three years, where we all went home and suddenly I’m on a call, and my direct report’s nanny called out sick. And so this did literally happen. We have a really important presentation and her daughter is in the room with her, and I can’t tell her to tell her daughter to stop talking to her. Do you know what I mean? There’s just so… We’re in each other’s homes now?

Yvette Cameron:

Which I love.

Kyle Lagunas:

And then we’re also… Managers having to have really tough conversations like, “We have to come back to the office, by the way.” It’s just is what it… The amount of challenge that managers are under now-

Yvette Cameron:

It’s-

Kyle Lagunas:

… I’m glad to be back on my own-

Yvette Cameron:

Well-

Kyle Lagunas:

… an individual contributor and solopreneur-

Yvette Cameron:

Again, I-

Kyle Lagunas:

… I couldn’t be back in enterprise now.

Yvette Cameron:

I think technology’s very helpful. There’s so much more it can do, but ultimately the culture, the practices of the organization, the mindset of the organization sets the stage. No amount of technology-

Kyle Lagunas:

It’s more important now than ever, that we have time and capacity-

Yvette Cameron:

Yeah.

Kyle Lagunas:

… for those things.

Yvette Cameron:

Absolutely. No technology is going to change the fact that if you have a talent marketplace, where you’re offering up gigs and projects to build out skills and experiences, and managers are treating their talent as their own moat. And say, “No, I’m not going to share you. I can’t let you do that for two weeks or even part-time,” then no technology is going to fix that. That’s a culture and a business processing that has to be addressed.

Kyle Lagunas:

Wait, I can’t buy transformation out of the box?

Yvette Cameron:

No, gosh, as much… Actually, let’s see, that would be 25D release.

Kyle Lagunas:

Oh, shady. All right. Well, thanks for coming to the show.

Yvette Cameron:

Yeah, yeah.

Kyle Lagunas:

I will never be able to live down that I missed your session. But for what it’s worth, my friend who’s a practitioner was speaking at HR Tech for the first time ever, and I was in the front row to show her some love.

Yvette Cameron:

Oh, that’s great.

Kyle Lagunas:

So she needed me, and-

Yvette Cameron:

That’s great.

Kyle Lagunas:

Yeah.

Yvette Cameron:

So listen, I would like to come back in a year, let’s do this next year. Because I’ve got to tell you, I think GenAI is going to do more than just automate, and make things more efficient and productivity growth. It’s going to literally change the face of technology.

Kyle Lagunas:

I’m here for it.

Yvette Cameron:

These menu navigations and various things. A year from now, we’re going to see a lot of difference in the works on the actual benefits.

Kyle Lagunas:

Bet. I will be right here. And I hope that you’ll find that, as an analyst, I’m asking the right questions, I’m paying attention to the right things, I’m really hoping that… Because it’s going to be really easy for us to fall into feature level, shiny object syndrome right now.

What I love about you and me is, we are really looking at impact. We are really looking to see what results this drives, how this changes things. And not just like, “Oh, look at all this cool,” I mean, there’s cool shit, there really is. But hold me accountable for that then, if I come to this next year and you’re like, “Kyle, you’re missing it, you’re missing the point?” Call me out, girl.

Yvette Cameron:

I completely doubt it-

Kyle Lagunas:

We’ll see.

Yvette Cameron:

… but I’ll be ready.

Kyle Lagunas:

All right.

Yvette Cameron:

All right.

Kyle Lagunas:

Next time.

Yvette Cameron:

Love you, sweetie.

Kyle Lagunas:

Thanks, Yvette.

Well folks, that is all the time that we have for today. Big thanks to Yvette for bringing the fire, keeping it 100 about the future of work, and the impact of tech, like GenAI. Honestly, it’s refreshing to hear someone with such a massive role, talk about actual solutions and not just shiny objects. I feel like this one was way overdue. Yvette and I spill the tea all the time, off the record, now we got to sit down together.

So what did we learn today, kiddos? Well, first of all, skills aren’t just some big buzzword. They’ve got to be baked into everything, not slapped on with a bit of software. And managers, they need more than just tools thrown their way. They need real support if we’re gonna expect them to be people-centric leaders. No tech can solve a broken culture, y’all. It’s up to us.

All right, well thanks for tuning in. And, as always, if you liked what you heard like and subscribe, share the love and tell your friends. We’ll catch you next time on Transformation Realness. Stay curious, stay candid and remember, transformation isn’t something you buy, it’s something you build.

Tags Recruitment, Recruitment Technology, talent acquisition, talent management

Blog Podcast

Flipping the Script: How Employ Is Reinventing TA Solutions

Post author By Kyle Lagunas
Post date December 5, 2024

On this episode of Transformation Realness, I’m hanging out with the brains behind Employ: Dara Brenner, Chief Product Officer, Steve Cox, CEO and Lucy Zarlengo, Chief Marketing Officer. Employ, the force behind Jobvite, Lever and JazzHR, is rewriting the rules of HR tech by combining these brands under one unified vision. But they’re not just smushing these brands together and calling it a day — they’re flipping the script on HR tech, redefining what it means to deliver impact for recruiters and talent teams everywhere.

This conversation gets into the nitty-gritty of brand unification, inspiring teams from the inside out, and delivering tools that don’t just look good on paper but actually work in real life.

Jazz, Lever, Jobvite — Oh My!

Turning three or more brands into one cohesive powerhouse isn’t for the faint of heart, but the team at Employ makes it look easy. “We can go in, we can do real discovery with customers and say, ‘What are your business problems? What are your pain points?’” Dara says. “And as a part of that, provide the right solution to solve it because we have so many options in our toolbox.”

Let’s talk strengths: JazzHR is great for high-volume, quick-turnaround hiring. Lever’s got that professional talent vibe with a scalable, recruiter-friendly design. And Jobvite? It’s the pro for handling complex workflows in industries like healthcare. “I look at it as something that can really target highly regulated industries, because of the complexity that goes along with that, [and] the compliance that goes along with that,” Dara explains.

The biggest challenge in unifying the brands was finding the common thread across them. For that, Lucy leaned into variety and giving customers options. “I think one of the differentiations for us is that we have choice,” she says. “We have three different ATSs. We don’t want to necessarily eliminate folks understanding who Jazz is, who Lever is, who Jobvite is, but as their needs change and evolve as an organization, they can move across our entire portfolio.”

No Silos, No Drama, Just Results

Employ’s bold rallying cry — “Flip the Script” — is about shaking off old habits and doing things differently. “We don’t have to make [only one] solution fit to our customer’s business needs,” Steve says. “We can understand [their] business needs and take any of our solutions, and create customizations of modules on top of the ATS to be able to go deliver them the service that they need and they want.”

Internally, it’s a vibe shift too. Steve makes it clear: “We’ve built a really strong low-ego team, and the benefit of having a low-ego team is that we can move together as a unit and we can move together fast.” No more silos, no more “not my job” nonsense — just one team working toward the same goal: making life easier for recruiters.

But Can You Prove It? How Employ Helps TA Leaders Show the Receipts

Let’s be real — every HR tech vendor loves to shout about ROI, but how many of them are actually helping talent acquisition leaders prove it? Employ’s stepping up to the plate with a new ROI dashboard baked right into the product.

“You’ve got to make that connection,” Dara says. “It’s great to be hiring people, but what is that really doing to the bottom line business? The CFO and the CEO want to know, how are you growing revenue, how are you reducing margin or whatever their key metrics are? We’ve got to arm the talent acquisition people with that capability.”

This isn’t just fluff: it’s about empowering TA pros to take a seat at the table and hold their own. “Talent acquisition leaders need the same data-driven credibility as their counterparts in finance or marketing,” says Steve. “We’re giving them the tools to tell that story.”

Employ’s also leaning into AI — but not the scary, “we’re replacing you” kind. “Done right, people shouldn’t even really know that the AI is there,” Steve says. “It should just help them sort through, make them more efficient, help them with decision making, but ultimately allow the human to make the decision.”

Employ isn’t just merging brands — it’s creating a whole new way of thinking about HR tech. From empowering TA teams to streamlining their tools, they’re flipping the script on what’s possible in this space.

Ready to rethink how you approach talent acquisition? This is your sign. Until next time on Transformation Realness: stay bold, stay curious and, above all, stay real.

People in This Episode

Dara Brenner: LinkedIn
Steve Cox: Linkedin
Lucy Zarlengo: LinkedIn

Transcript

Kyle Lagunas:

Hello, my little blueberries. Welcome back to another incredible episode of Transformation Realness, the only show all about people who are trying to make the world of work less shitty, and who have the guts to share their story: the good, the bad and, most of all, the real. It’s produced in partnership with Rep Cap, and hosted by none other than yours truly, the shining, shimmering, splendid Kyle Lagunas, Head of Strategy and Principal Analyst at Aptitude Research, the boutique research firm leading the way in HR tech and transformation.

Get into it!

In this episode, we are talking about the fascinating journey of Employ, the brainchild of tech giants like Jobvite, Lever, and JazzHR, all rolled into one beautiful little baby brand, a force to be reckoned with. What does it take to pull off such a transformation? Well, we’ve got the leadership team here to spill the tea. First up, Dara Brenner, Chief Product Officer with 25 plus years experience in HR tech. And let me tell you, this woman’s got a vision.

Joining her is Steve Cox, the new CEO, who has joined Employ to drive it to its next chapter. He’s still getting his feet wet in the HR tech space, but guess what? He’s married to a recruiter, and also he was brave enough to jump right in and talk the real tea here on Transformation Realness. And of course, we also have their CMO, Chief Marketing Officer, Lucy Zarlengo, fellow Austinite extraordinaire. It’s a pretty big conversation.

In this episode, we are diving into what it takes to consolidate multiple brands, build a unified vision, and flip the script on what HR and talent tech should be. Spoiler alert, it’s not just about selling software. It’s about driving impact for the people on the ground, the practitioners who need real tools to survive, and dare I say it, thrive. Are you ready? Are you listening? Do you want to know what’s really going on? Well, let’s get into it.

We are coming to you live for Transformation Realness from the Glider AI Booth. I’m actually really excited, because if you are tracking the space, you know that every day is a new day, and it feels like there has been a lot of action and activity in the vendor landscape. Of course, companies like Jobvite and Lever, and I think Jazz is a part of this, too. We’ve got a lot of different pieces of really fun tech. They all have been rolled up into a single new brand called Employ.

Today, I’ve actually brought the leadership team to talk to us a little bit about what are they up to, what are they doing, and how are they going to get from here to there? Yeah, so I’m actually going to invite you guys to jump in and say hello. First, we’ll introduce ourselves, since nobody knows us. We’re going to say who we are and what we’re doing here.

Dara Brenner:

Okay, so I’m Dara Brenner. I am the Chief Product Officer at Employ, and I have been in the HR tech space for a minute, actually about 25 plus years, from large organizations to small organizations. I just absolutely love this space, and I’m so excited to be responsible for the vision at Employ.

Kyle Lagunas:

It was actually our meeting where you showed me your vision and I was like, “All right, we got to record something because I really want to dig in here.” Thanks for coming.

Dara Brenner:

Yeah, thank you.

Kyle Lagunas:

Hi, Steve. Who are you?

Steve Cox:

Hey, yeah, thanks. My name’s Steve Cox, CEO of Employ. I’ve currently been here about six months. This is my first time in the HR tech space, so I’m new to it, but I’m not new to the concept of talent acquisition. I’m going to drop my favorite line. My wife is a recruiter, and so I have an inside track into the day in the life of a recruiter. That’s helped me immensely get up to speed in this journey.

Kyle Lagunas:

That’s exciting. Now, you’re going to have somebody that’s like, “Well, I actually don’t know if my wife agrees with you on that.”

Dara Brenner:

Actually, I use it as an opportunity. Anytime I come up with some crazy idea, I’ll run it by Steve and I’ll say, “Hey, do me a favor. Can you run it by your wife?”

Kyle Lagunas:

I love it. You know what? Let’s get her here now. Do you want to say hi too?

Lucy Zarlengo:

Sure. Lucy Zarlengo, the Chief Marketing Officer. I joined Employ this time last year. Actually, HR Tech was my second week of joining-

Kyle Lagunas:

That’s right.

Lucy Zarlengo:

… The organization, but I’ve been in B2B software marketing my entire career.

Kyle Lagunas:

Yeah, yeah. Where do you all sit? Are you in Austin, Texas?

Lucy Zarlengo:

I’m in Austin. Yep.

Kyle Lagunas:

Did I learn that? Okay. What about you guys?

Steve Cox:

I’m in Denver, Colorado. We just opened our new office. Yeah, center of excellence is now there, and based myself out of there.

Dara Brenner:

I’m from Atlanta, GA.

Kyle Lagunas:

Atlanta. Hot-lanta.

Dara Brenner:

You got it.

Kyle Lagunas:

I’ve actually only been once, and I think I went for an afternoon meeting in Buckhead, and then left the next morning.

Dara Brenner:

You didn’t even get to enjoy any of our fantastic restaurants?

Kyle Lagunas:

We went to a good steakhouse, but that was it.

Lucy Zarlengo:

The food scene is great.

Dara Brenner:

You got to come back, Kyle.

Kyle Lagunas:

I know. Maybe we should do something in Atlanta next, once it cools off. All right. Well, so Dara, let’s start with this epic vision you have. Last year when we met, it was all still the individual brands. We were trying to maybe just get our arms around it, but you really are coming at this, and I was stunned and inspired by what you have in mind. Do you want to share with us a little bit?

Dara Brenner:

Absolutely, thanks. If you think about it, and you mentioned it in the opening, you’ve got Jobvite, we’ve got Lever, we’ve got JazzHR, we also have Telemetry.

Kyle Lagunas:

I knew I was forgetting one, yeah.

Dara Brenner:

Which is part of the acquisition, and there’s a few others that were acquired over time, more features in my mind than products themselves. When you look at all of these things, you actually have the opportunity to put together a story that’s really compelling. What it gives us the ability to do is to really look at the customer base across those different solutions and say, “What is similar within each one of those areas?”

What we’re starting to find out is that people in the Jazz world, as an example, tend to be folks that want to really get hires in the door quickly. It could be large hourly workforces. The person who’s leveraging something like a Jazz in a lot of cases could be a franchisee manager, like a store manager, and they just need to get people hired as quickly as possible. By the way, they’re not professional talent acquisition people.

Kyle Lagunas:

What?

Dara Brenner:

Yeah, exactly. You compare that to a typical Lever customer. In this particular case, it’s much more of a scalable-

Kyle Lagunas:

You’ve got a very evangelistic sell, by the way. Lever was like, “We’re going to change the world.” It wasn’t just an ATS.

Dara Brenner:

Yeah, and it worked in a very interesting part of the market. If you are a tech company, if you’re a professional services company, if you are really looking to scale quickly, in most cases, Lever was a perfect fit for those particular customers, and you’re starting to deal with people that have more of a professional view on recruiting and talent acquisition. You could have a sourcer, you could have a professional recruiting team, talent acquisition team.

For that particular type of user or that particular type of company, you really want something like Lever to fit for those folks. We have that as well. Then if you think about the other one that I haven’t mentioned yet, Jobvite, in terms of an ATS, it is so well-built to handle complex workflows. When I think about Jobvite as a product, I look at it as something that can really target highly regulated industries, because of the complexity that goes along with that, the compliance that goes along with that.

If you have an organization that has a ton of different hiring types, so let’s use a hospital as an example. You could have a neurosurgeon, you could have a janitor, you could have the cafeteria worker, you could have the biller, you could have clinicians. It’s so many different candidate types. And in all cases, they will need different workflows-

Kyle Lagunas:

With very different interview types, application interfaces-

Dara Brenner:

Exactly.

Kyle Lagunas:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Dara Brenner:

Because of the ability to handle the complexity in Jobvite, it gives us a unique opportunity to really sell that solution. We can go in, we can do real discovery with customers and say, “What are your business problems? What are your pain points?” And as a part of that, provide the right solution to solve it because we have so many options in our toolbox.

Kyle Lagunas:

So you’d be more consultative.

Dara Brenner:

Exactly.

Kyle Lagunas:

That was the challenge in front of you before. It was like, “Well, these are different. We have different client bases, they’re all built on different code. What are we going to do, integrate all of these products?” Now you’ve renamed them. Are you keeping the legacy names?

Dara Brenner:

We are. Lucy, you may want to chime in on this as the CMO.

Lucy Zarlengo:

Yeah, so we’ll continue to use the product names or the solution name, right? Employ is the overall company. JazzHR, Lever, Jobvite are our solutions. There’s deep resonance in the market and awareness in the market of those names. Really, I think the challenge for us and what we’ve started to work through as an executive team is how do you actually build a connection across those brands? I think one of the differentiations for us is that we have choice,r right?

We have three different ATSs. We don’t want to necessarily eliminate folks understanding who Jazz is, who Lever is, who Jobvite is, but as their needs change and evolve as an organization, they can move across our entire portfolio. It’s valuable to us to go to market as Employ and how do we build some distinction there, but also maintain the current brands as well?

Kyle Lagunas:

I like it. I feel like there’s cohesiveness with this approach. Having somebody that has a lot of experience in this space, you know the complexities of these things and the nuances from one to another. For you, though, I feel like you have a lot of meat to tell. You have a lot of storytelling that you can do in market, right?

Lucy Zarlengo:

We do, absolutely. We have stories that we can tell in terms of the individual solutions. We have stories we can start to tell of customers who’ve moved across solutions, et cetera.

Kyle Lagunas:

Then my question for you, as the business leader, how do we make sure that we’re not just selling a bunch of stuff, you know? What kind of commercial organization are you trying to bulk up and build to make sure that we don’t just have a big, we’re not just a portfolio company, that we don’t just have a whole bunch of things?

Steve Cox:

No, absolutely. I think that’s a really good call out as well, because when you think about the journey of Employ and where it started, it was the bringing together of these brands under a single name. It was bringing together of the brands under the name only. There was no real integration inside the organization, so very siloed. Everybody stayed in their lane, all the way from product development and engineering, right, away through to go to market.

One of the things that we are doing now is we are bringing the company together in a single structure with a set of products, rather than keeping it as a house of brands. Everything we are doing now from a product development and engineering perspective flows through as like ATS, data and integration, and AI teams that work across multiple products. We are starting to now run that through our organization. We are there in terms of products and engineering. We are well on our way in our customer group, and we are at the, I would say, the early stages in our go-to-market of driving this messaging around choice.

And we are breaking out of the small, medium and large for the products, and we are bringing it together as optionality for customers. Rather than having to find out-

Kyle Lagunas:

I love that matrix. I really do. You have small, highly complex companies, right?

Steve Cox:

Correct.

Dara Brenner:

Exactly.

Steve Cox:

Absolutely. I think this is where we have a key differentiator in the market, because we don’t have to make our only solution fit to our customer’s business needs. We can understand our business needs and take any of our solutions, and create customizations of modules on top of the ATS to be able to go deliver them the service that they need and they want.

Kyle Lagunas:

Well, I’m excited, I’m really interested. This is a friendly space, but we got to get this right. This moment in the industry is a really tough moment in the industry, and if we are not getting it right, we’re all really vulnerable as solution providers, right? Having a good idea, there’s a lot of good ideas on this floor, and execution is a big one. Maybe for you all now, I don’t know who wants to pick this up, but how are we going to get there? How are we going to get that done?

Steve Cox:

I’ll start and let everybody else chime in. For me, it’s the beginning of it all starts with people. We need to find the right people. We’ve built a brand new executive team of people that have got not only 20 plus years experience in this industry, but also 20 plus years in building enterprise software companies. We’ve built a really strong low ego team, and the benefit of having a low ego team is that we can move together as a unit and we can move together fast.

We are proving that in the things that we are doing. It’s not lost on us that the time is now. I see it, we see it in the industry, we see it with our competitors, and I think we’ve got a winning team with the experience to go out and dominate in this space.

Dara Brenner:

I would say from a product perspective, we want to move really fast, but we also want to make sure that we’re getting feedback along the way, so typical kind of agile, but if we’re going to- one of the things I hadn’t mentioned yet was Telemetry. We’re going to break that apart and allow every customer, regardless of their ATS, to leverage capability there.

What we may do is say, “Okay, let’s go ahead and take a piece of that, and let’s start selling that, because the capability is there from a product perspective, to our Jazz customers, to our Lever customers, get some feedback on it, and then continue that journey.” Go really fast, but do it in a well-informed way after customers have the opportunity to use the technology and see the benefit that it has.

Kyle Lagunas:

Yeah. Well, I’m glad to hear low ego, I think, is such a ticket. You’re not the only company that has had this kind of consolidated moment, but there’s a not my job mentality, like, “Oh, that’s them. This is me.” It’s like, “Well, no babe. We’re all on the same team here now.” There’s a lot of culture that we have- like, change that has to drive to enable it. You all can be connected and on the same page, but that’s going to come all the way down to that CSM, who’s also trying to get the engineering team to respond to these feature requests or these bug reports.

I am coming into a QVR, and our engineering team hasn’t said shit to me, so I have no idea what’s going on, actually. You know what I mean? There’s a really deep level of integration that we need to work on to make sure that we’re delivering on this vision.

Steve Cox:

And change management, right? Change management and culture is absolutely key, like you said. We run a monthly all-hands, and we share updates around the business. We do internal, just started to do internal product reviews, product roadmap updates, create feedback loops. I think what’s really important is we have to have a mission to be able to get everybody to rally behind.

We’ve just introduced a new rally cry inside of our business, which is “flip the script.” It’s all about challenging our people to just go do something different. Let’s not do what we did before in Jobvite, Lever, Jazz. Let’s do something new as Employ, let’s do something meaningful. Let’s put customers right at the heart of our decision making, and let’s make it easy for them to have choice.

Kyle Lagunas:

Look at all these goodies you get to play with.

Lucy Zarlengo:

It’s super fun. We can get you a flip the script T-shirt as well.

Kyle Lagunas:

I love a hoodie, I love a cardigan.

Lucy Zarlengo:

Put in your swag order.

Kyle Lagunas:

I was at a dinner last week where we designed our own Levi’s jackets.

Lucy Zarlengo:

Oh, I love that.

Dara Brenner:

Oh, that’s cool.

Kyle Lagunas:

I got… What is the leather? Not tassels, but anyway, fringe.

Dara Brenner:

The fringe. That’s awesome.

Kyle Lagunas:

… On the back.

Lucy Zarlengo:

That’s amazing.

Kyle Lagunas:

We’ll see. I had a couple of cocktails at that point, so I had a lot of ideas. Well, that’s really, honestly, I do want to see this work. I really do. Jobvite was a long-time client of mine, and Telemetry was an early CRM. I worked in the CRM space. I really want to see it work, but it’s a competitive space too. One thing, as you were talking, Steve, I’m thinking, you do need to inspire these teams that you have, because it has been a bloodbath the last several years.

You couldn’t build fast enough, you couldn’t sell fast enough, you couldn’t deliver fast enough. Especially coming out of that “everything’s on fire” moment to now, it’s everyone’s budgets getting cut, all of these things that we just sold might actually not get implemented. It’s still a really uncertain time. Keeping the people inspired is also important as at the same time, delivering, and building product, and getting out in market. You guys really do have a big challenge ahead. Are we excited? Are we… You know what I mean? Are we fired up?

Lucy Zarlengo:

Super excited.

Steve Cox:

Super excited. I see this right now. There’s a real opportunity in the market with some of the people that have done recent layoffs. There’s a lot of good talent come to the market. It’s an opportunity, and you’ll see this from us in the coming weeks, that we have the opportunity to bring in some of that talent to just enhance and make better our processes, programs and controls, and then bring more of our benefit into the market.

Kyle Lagunas:

I love to hear you say it. I’m glad to see you guys fired up, but I also feel like yes, we need to inspire our teams and give them a rallying cry, but I’m also looking like, yeah, it’s been tough in the solution provider space, but it’s been even harder for the practitioners that we support, for the teams that we’re trying to support. I would love to know, what opportunity do you guys see there to become absolutely obsessed with solving the customer’s problems?

Steve Cox:

Yeah, I see two real things. One is that, we just run a jump start program back in July to bring in 15 new customer success managers into our business. They were not replacements, they were additions to the team. We are really over-indexing in being able to put people on the ground to talk to our customers, help them get the most out of our products, help them become more efficient. As you say, it’s a tough time recruiting teams of downsize, and work effort in terms of backfills, even if not growth, is still there.

So I think that’s one of the things that we’ve done. Then one of the other things I think that I’ll let Dara talk about is what we’re doing around our ROI dashboard. Being able to take out data and analysis, put it into the hands of a talent acquisition professional, so that they can go show leadership the value that they’re adding and the return on investment that they’re getting, to go try and garner extra resources to help them do their job better, faster, more efficient.

Dara Brenner:

Yeah, absolutely. One of the things that we’re looking to do, and I don’t know what it’ll be called ultimately, but the idea is that everybody talks about ROI on the front end, but no one can ever turn around and say, “Did you achieve the ROI that you expected to achieve by using this solution?” We’re going to bake these into the product itself, into the products themselves.

And essentially, at any given time, to Steve’s point, the talent acquisition leaders could use it to justify additional resources, because they can show the impact that they’re making on the bottom line business. Because you’ve got to make that connection. It’s great to be hiring people, but what is that really doing to the bottom line business? The CFO and the CEO wants to know, how are you growing revenue, how are you reducing margin or whatever their key metrics are? And we’ve got to arm the talent acquisition people with that capability.

I think we’re doing that by spending a lot of time going back to being customer obsessed and spending time with customers and saying, “What is it that’s not getting through for you? How can we help you be a better business partner?” You know, being in this industry forever, HR folks have been wanting to get a seat at the table, and so now they have a seat at the table, but talent acquisition people need the same seat.

They need to be able to be armed with the same data and information that shows the business leaders, their CFO, their CEO, that this is really important, this function is important, and the impact we’re making is valuable.

Kyle Lagunas:

I mean, it’s the right time. I said a lot, I feel like part of the vulnerability for TA was that when the jig was up, the business was like, “Well, what are you doing?” We were just like, “We had been so head down just hiring, hiring, hiring.” They’re like, “I don’t think we had really strong ROI stories.” We’re like, “What do you mean, what have I been doing? Barely keeping it, barely staying alive is what I’ve been doing.”

We needed to see actual tangible ROI, and it’s like, “I love you, I’m sorry, but we can’t justify having all these recruiters when we don’t have this much hiring to do,” ya know? When I was a talent leader, we backed off on recruiting scorecards because we didn’t want to micromanage people. We just were trying to deliver, deliver. Even there, I couldn’t say, “Well, this is what my recruiters are even up to.”

If you are investing in the CS organization and you’re building this product, I want to get all of my CS team using this product as part of my QBRs. I’m going to be building my QBRs in this product.

Dara Brenner:

It’s funny that you say that, because the very first stakeholder is our CS organization.

Kyle Lagunas:

Love it. I’m a genius.

Dara Brenner:

Before we roll it out, exactly, before we even roll it out, we’re already working in Q4, so in the upcoming quarter, to roll this to our CS so they can start using it.

Kyle Lagunas:

I love it, because then you’re also practicing what you preach. Using the product, being actual product experts, you’re going to get closer to your user experience. Look, I’m thinking you’re going to have, yes, the head of TA, but also the team leads, right? And the individual recruiters. Everybody needs to show what they’re up to, which kind of sucks, because it’s like, “Will you just get off my back? I’m just trying to stay alive here.”

No, they’re like, “The new normal, we got to show what we’re up to.” I like that this maybe gives you an opportunity to empower your customers with the product, and not just facilitate a new workflow.

Steve Cox:

As we start to return back to growth, we see the tech companies growing, we see the industry, the economy growing as a whole. Talent acquisition is going to be the first thing to bounce back. They’re going to have the problem scaling to keep up with growth. Today, it’s about, how do we become efficient with a reduced workforce? Then it’s going to become how do we go scale?

Kyle Lagunas:

See, I love that, though, because in the past, efficiency, everybody in the back of our heads are like, “Oh, cost-cutting. That’s what that is.” I don’t know that that’s… Look, we did need to cut costs. Spending was out of control. Efficiency now, especially in the AI age, efficiency is excellence. We need to be building the most excellent functions right now, so that when we’re scaling up, we’re not just throwing bodies at problems, we’re actually building out new operating capacity is what it is, right?

Steve Cox:

The phrase you used there is one that we’ve lived by, is scaling efficiently, right? It’s easy to throw people at a problem and try to get a better result, but the more efficiency that we can build in now, that’s going to allow organizations and talent teams to be able to scale efficiently through the work we do today. Everything we do sets itself up not only for today, but for future growth and scalability.

Kyle Lagunas:

I’m really into it. I think that’s what teams are really feeling, just like waiting for one more shoe to drop. They’re working tirelessly still, but with something like this, I can engage my business stakeholders and build that credibility back up. Everyone’s jobs are hard right now. It’s not easy anywhere, but most of these other functions, you’re going to come to your boss and have some reports, and not just some fluff stuff. You’re going to get into the nitty-gritty, and you are too.

You’re going to want to click down and they’re going to be ready for it. I just feel like TA hasn’t had a moment to catch its breath and be investing that time in being more data driven, and being more just excellent and efficient. It’s just like, “Cut here, cut here, scale back up, scale back up.” You know what I mean? It’s just so reactive. I really think that this might be a good new foundational moment for us to build up a stronger base.

Steve Cox:

We can be at the heart of that because if we can provide the tools that drive that kind of-

Kyle Lagunas:

We’ll see. Just kidding.

Steve Cox:

We will see. I’d bet on us, though.

Kyle Lagunas:

Yeah, I hope you would.

Steve Cox:

We have the opportunity to be at the heart of that, and to be able to give them the tools to be able to do the work that they want to go do. That’s what’s super exciting for me, is to just think about what we can go build to go bring the underrepresented talent organization up in stature inside of a company, and get people to really understand and recognize the value they provide.

I think that’s lost at the moment, right? There is no data, there is no insight that can be shared. So some of the work we’re doing will bring that kind of front and center.

Kyle Lagunas:

I think it’s really cool. I’ve been a Jobvite friend for a lot longer than, I don’t know if you guys ever knew Jobvite before, but once upon a time, the head of marketing created- remember when social was a big deal and social recruiting was all the rage? They created the social recruiting report that they published annually. It was a best practice every year.

It was good market research. You guys did it yourself. An analyst didn’t do it for you. Do something about data-driven recruiting. That’s what’s new now, and that’s what we really need to figure out. I would say invest some time in building the thought leadership that’s going to empower your people and get interest in market, but just building on what you’re already doing.

Dara Brenner:

Yeah, and it’s interesting that you say that, because one of the things that really got me excited about joining Employ was that we have 22,000 customers from very small to very large, so 22,000 customers have a lot of data. When you aggregate all of that data, it provides insights that really no one else can match. When you combine that, and that provides the insights to our customers with, and again, you mentioned AI earlier, and people still think of AI as, “You’re going to replace me with AI.”

We don’t view it that way. We view AI as part of our DNA. If we’re doing AI right, and we’re combining that with the insights that we bring to bear, you don’t even know. You don’t know there’s AI inside, if you will. It’s kind of like Intel inside. It’s just there. It’s just making you more efficient.

Kyle Lagunas:

Well, good. It’s not a feature play, right? This is a new found- you’re talking about new foundations.

Dara Brenner:

New foundation.

Kyle Lagunas:

It’s a core technology now. It’s a core capability.

Steve Cox:

Done right, people shouldn’t even really know that the AI is there.

Dara Brenner:

Nope.

Steve Cox:

It should just help them sort through, make them more efficient, help them with decision making, but ultimately allow the human to make the decision.

Kyle Lagunas:

I was talking, there was a session yesterday about candidate experience, and I forget where this person worked, but they were talking about their chatbot for scheduling interviews or candidate care, and they were saying that even after an interview had been scheduled, which completes the workflow, the candidates were still texting with like, “Thank you so much. Is there anything else I should know,” like chatting with the bot, knowing it was a bot, by the way.

Dara Brenner:

Oh, that’s funny.

Kyle Lagunas:

I think it’s so interesting what we’re going to do.

Dara Brenner:

That’s funny.

Kyle Lagunas:

Well, thank you guys for coming, opening up a little bit. I am really looking forward to what you guys can do. I think the vision is definitely going to be a really good guiding light. Let’s flip the script, girls.

Lucy Zarlengo:

Let’s do it.

Dara Brenner:

Yeah.

Kyle Lagunas:

Okay, cool. Well, thank you, guys. We’ll see you again soon, okay?

Lucy Zarlengo:

Thank you so much.

Dara Brenner:

Thank you, Kyle.

Lucy Zarlengo:

Thank you.

Kyle Lagunas:

Ugh, that one was so much fun. I loved it. But unfortunately, we’ve reached the end of this episode, folks. A huge thank you to Dara, Steve and Lucy for coming on the show and bringing the heat. We really got into it. Everything from building low-eagle leadership teams to the realities of transforming brands without losing sight of the end user. And the message that hit me the hardest: success isn’t about throwing bodies at a problem. It’s about scaling with excellence, with purpose and with heart.

The truth is the HR tech, TA tech landscape — no joke right now. Everyone’s working twice as hard to keep up, and let’s face it, no one has the luxury of just coasting. Here’s what I love about Employ’s approach: they’re putting customers at the heart of their process. They’re staying agile, and they’re building tools that actually help instead of just complicate these processes. That’s the kind of transformation we need.

If this conversation got your gears turning — and I know it did — be sure to like and subscribe, share with all of your friends, and leave us a review. Don’t worry, we’ve got even more juicy content coming your way in future episodes. Until next time, take care of yourselves. Stay sharp, and remember, excellence isn’t just a goal: it’s the standard. Thanks for hanging out with me. We’ll catch you on the next episode of Transformation Realness.

Tags Recruitment, Recruitment Technology, talent acquisition

Blog Podcast

Trust, Tech and a Little Skepticism: Making AI Work for People

Post author By Kyle Lagunas
Post date November 22, 2024

On this episode of Transformation Realness, Kyle Lagunas is joined by Opal Wagnac, Senior Vice President of Market & Product Strategy at isolved. With her sharp insights and fresh perspective, Opal doesn’t hold back on what it takes to bring enterprise-grade solutions to businesses of all sizes while keeping it real about AI’s potential — and limitations. At the center of her approach is a mission to ensure that technology serves us, not replaces us. “Technology is not going to solve all your problems,” she says. Sometimes you just need a real human on the other end of the line.

Opal is passionate about helping small and mid-sized businesses compete with larger organizations by providing them with practical, enterprise-grade tools. For isolved, this means not just providing tech but supporting SMBs every step of the way as they integrate and utilize AI effectively.

Recorded live at HR Tech 2024, this episode dives deep into the challenges and opportunities of using AI responsibly, especially for small to mid-sized businesses. Tune in as we explore why trust, empathy and a little skepticism go a long way in keeping HR real.

AI Isn’t Magic, Honey — it’s the New Electricity

Opal kicks things off with an electrifying comparison — literally. She compares the dawn of AI to electricity, noting how every revolutionary tech has a bit of a rough start before it becomes a staple. “There’s this fear, there’s this trepidation,” she says. “And at one point, electricity had the same fear and had the same trepidation.”

Like electricity, AI needs understanding and adaptation, not fear. Just as we don’t think twice about whether a restaurant has electricity, AI will eventually be a standard‌ — ‌but only if we integrate it thoughtfully.

For Opal, this AI evolution calls for a good dose of healthy skepticism. Instead of blind trust, she’s all about asking the tough questions: “We need more critical thinkers,” she insists. “And I emphasize that word critical. Criticize the AI. Please do. Just to make sure that you’re also not creating the same repetitive mistakes.”

AI’s real value is in how seamlessly it can serve human needs — but it’s on leaders to ensure the technology remains human-centered.

AI Needs Real Change Agents, Not Just Cheerleaders

For Opal, trust in AI-powered HR solutions doesn’t mean blind acceptance‌ — ‌it’s about thoughtful implementation and a willingness to question the tools themselves. “To me, HR is a change agent,” she says. “So accept your role as a change agent and start making some changes. So even if the AI is telling you X, Y, Z, start challenging it.” This stance is at the heart of isolved’s approach, where Opal emphasizes that real progress in HR requires actively questioning AI’s outputs to ensure they’re serving the right goals.

Opal underscores that while enterprise-grade AI solutions can support SMBs, they also need to be backed by real human support and an ethical framework. By layering technology with hands-on consulting, isolved ensures that their clients feel equipped to handle AI’s capabilities without compromising on human connection.

Diversity for the Win: No Room for One-Track Thinking Here

Opal’s big on shaking things up and bringing in diverse perspectives‌ — ‌because if everyone thinks the same way, innovation doesn’t stand a chance. She encourages HR leaders to expand their circles and take advice from unconventional sources. “Learn from other people’s mistakes,” she advises, “because you won’t live long enough to make them yourself.” Her point? The best solutions come from a wide variety of voices, and pigeonholing people based on titles only limits what’s possible.

Opal underscores that HR leaders need to look beyond the obvious. By valuing each person’s unique journey and experiences, HR can foster a more inclusive and adaptable workplace culture. “They didn’t just fall out of the sky and be an HR generalist. There was something else before that, too,” she says. “So for the most part, when you’re engaging with someone, you’re getting the whole person and all of the experiences that make them.” That’s why she encourages everyone to dig into diverse perspectives, and the innovation will follow.

Big thanks to Opal for keeping it real on AI, the need for trust, and why HR must step up as change agents. Her takeaways? Don’t just follow the tech‌ — ‌challenge it. AI might be the new electricity, but it’s nothing without the people guiding its use. For all you HR pros out there, remember: it’s up to you to make these tools truly transformative. So stay curious, keep asking questions, and let’s get real about shaping a future where tech serves us‌ — ‌not the other way around.

People in This Episode

Opal Wagnoc: LinkedIn

Transcript

Kyle Lagunas:

Hello, my little blueberries, te-he-he. Welcome to another electrifying episode of Transformation Realness, the only show all about people who are trying to make the world of work less shitty and have the guts to share their story. The good, the bad, and most of all, the real. It’s produced in partnership with Rep Cap and hosted by none other than yours truly, the magnetic, magnanimous, magnificent, Kyle Lagunas, head of strategy and principal analyst at Aptitude Research, the boutique research firm leading the charge in HR tech and transformation. Get into it!

Today I’m joined by somebody who knows a thing or two about shaking things up. Opal Wagnac, Senior Vice President of Market and Solution Strategy at isolved. Opal’s on a mission to help businesses of every size access enterprise-grade solutions. And if you thought AI was just a fancy buzzword, well, buckle up. From electricity to the internet and now AI, Opal’s got stories and analogies that’ll make you rethink everything you thought you knew about innovation cycles. And yes, Roomba is named Zaza, because of course it is. You’re going to hear all about it. All right, this conversation is full of laughs, insights and a healthy dose of truth bombs about what it really takes to drive change in HR today. Check it out.

Okay. Hello everybody. My little blueberries. We’re back with another special episode of Transformation Realness. We are coming to you live from HR Tech 2024 in the Glider AI booth. And I have with me another very dear friend. Opal? Do you want to say hi to everybody?

Opal Wagnac:

Hi everyone. I’m so glad to be here. My name is Opal Wagnac, and I am the Senior Vice President of Market and Solutions Strategy at isolved.

Kyle Lagunas:

And what’s isolved?

Opal Wagnac:

isolved is a HCM provider, not just of product, but also of services. Really servicing the SMB in the mid-market space. And we cover everything from a bevy of products and solutions, from HR services to talent acquisition services, as well as the full scale of HCM.

Kyle Lagunas:

So just a little bit of stuff. No, I love it. And honestly, isolved is a bit new to me. I had a really great briefing with them a while ago, last month or so. But I was really excited to see you on stage for the opening session at Women in HR Tech, and especially when you were sharing with me a little bit about the first point of view of, look, we’re living in crazy times. Innovation cycles are just going rampant. But I really loved the story that you told about electricity. Can you tell us about that? Yeah.

Opal Wagnac:

Yeah, absolutely. So, of course, when the question comes up about, well, how are we supposed to embrace AI? And it’s always like that new thing. It’s like, oh my gosh, there’s this fear, there’s this trepidation. And at one point, electricity had the same fear and had the same trepidation. What do you mean light is coming out of the ceiling? What do you mean that I’m holding to this candle and I’m walking around one room to the next? Where’s this light coming from or how does it work? Electricity, I can’t see it, but I see its effect.

And I’m like, okay, you don’t see wind either, but you see its impact. And so with electricity it had to go through this enormous learning curve. And I believe it was Andrew Ng who said, like, “AI is the new electricity.” And so it literally had to get to a point where, here we are, if I’m making plans to go to dinner with you, I’m not going to ask, does the place have electricity? You would probably look at me like I had three heads. And so I understand where Andrew Ng was coming from with really trying to embrace AI. But if I look at electricity, I don’t know about you Kyle, but I wasn’t around when electricity was discovered.

Kyle Lagunas:

No, me neither. I’m very young.

Opal Wagnac:

I can’t remember what that learning curve was about. But I can read about it. However, in our lifetime we’ve seen the internet. So to me, I look at the AI — as AI as the new internet. Where there was a time where it’s like, what do you mean I can talk to someone in real time that’s in Singapore? And so actually we had a laugh about it, what was your screen name again?

Kyle Lagunas:

Oh, my first screen name was “Hello.” Because I didn’t know that I wasn’t chatting yet. I just got prompted with a box and I wrote Hello.

Opal Wagnac:

Wow. Very original. So Hello being your new screen name to talk to people. Mine was Talk and the number 2 Opal.

Kyle Lagunas:

See, you already had the acronyms. I love it.

Opal Wagnac:

I was just trying it out, but just thinking about it…

Kyle Lagunas:

You were cool from the beginning. Don’t play.

Opal Wagnac:

Thank you. Thank you.

Kyle Lagunas:

I really like it, especially because I think the electricity allegory, there was a lot of fear around electricity. People didn’t understand it, they didn’t know how it worked and so they didn’t trust it.

Opal Wagnac:

Right. Right.

Kyle Lagunas:

And I feel like especially in the HR organization, which has been historically extremely risk-averse, that the perceived risk and danger with this has really stalled, I think, some meaningful innovation. It’s like if I use AI to create a new drug, a new pharmaceutical drug, no one really understands that. But if I’m using AI to create a more data-driven performance management program. Or if I’m using AI to implement more equitable pay practices. Like everybody gets paid, everybody has performance reviews. We know what that is. And so it’s like the exposure, the level of connection to these perceived risks, the use cases for AI in our space, it’s actually a ubiquitous understanding of the stuff.

Opal Wagnac:

100%.

Kyle Lagunas:

Like, hey, this could actually be really disruptive. But I think we don’t know how it’s going to work. And so we’re not sure, candidly, whether we can trust HR to figure it out. You know what I’m saying? It’s like there’s this point right now where it’s like, what are we going to do here? Is HR going to take this and run with it? Can they? And I think they can.

Opal Wagnac:

I think they can too. Because when it comes to our own personal lives, AI is all over the place. We talk to Alexa to ask them, okay, what are those stats of Michael Jordan doing against LeBron James? Or even sillier things than that. So even using everyday natural language processing in our daily lives. I look at my kids. My kids are never going to ask, “Well, what are your AI solutions?” They don’t know what AI is, but they know the absence of AI.

Kyle Lagunas:

At four years old they’re asking if you have Wi-Fi. They’re coming up to me at my house, my niece and nephew. Like, “What’s your Wi-Fi password?” I’m like, bro.

Opal Wagnac:

Exactly. Exactly. So even the Roomba, right? We gave her her name. Her name is Zaza.

Kyle Lagunas:

Zaza?

Opal Wagnac:

Yeah. Yeah, Zaza. Because she earns her keep. And not to try and genderify her with that name but we felt that Zaza was very fancy. Instead of Jeeves, we felt Zaza.

Kyle Lagunas:

She’s a fancy girl.

Opal Wagnac:

She’s a fancy girl and she does a lot. And I think about all the type of innovation that goes into that. So this is the world in which they live in. So my kids will never look for a movie. Netflix better recommend. Even their friends are recommended to them. So living in a world of recommendations, and that is their day to day. I can definitely find areas within HR very easily. It’s easy for me because I look at a lot of the things, a lot of the questions that we’re constantly asking.

I was actually overhearing a conversation with one of the sales leaders and she was trying to help her son. It was like adulting 101. I was eavesdropping on it. So this was very interesting. You’re going to laugh at this one. And so of course, he’s like 26 years old, so he needs to get off his mommy’s insurance and get a real job. And so he got a real job. Check. And now he is going through the whole enrollment process. And he starts to freak out. He’s like, “Mom…”

Kyle Lagunas:

Because it’s complicated.

Opal Wagnac:

“… what Is a deductible? What is that? I never learned in college? What is that?”

Kyle Lagunas:

What’s home insurance and what’s a lifetime maximum?

Opal Wagnac:

Exactly. So all of these things during the enrollment process. And then he’s like, “Wait a minute, I got to count how many times I’m going to get hit by a bus next year to figure out how much I’m going to spend to go to urgent care? How morbid is that?” Right? So in thinking about it, you know what, he wasn’t wrong. Because he’s lived in a world where things have been recommended to them.

Kyle Lagunas:

Yeah. Served up to him.

Opal Wagnac:

Literally served up. HR already knows, I know that you’re a single male. I know that you have no children. I know that you’re a nonsmoker. I know so many things already about you. As a matter of fact, I know who you really are, not your street name, but I know your government name. You know all of these things, and yet you won’t even serve up to me, what’s the recommended plan?

Kyle Lagunas:

I actually only have a legal name. I don’t have a street name.

Opal Wagnac:

You don’t have a street name?

Kyle Lagunas:

No.

Opal Wagnac:

We got to give you a street name because-

Kyle Lagunas:

Don’t be fooled by this ink.

Opal Wagnac:

No, listen.

Kyle Lagunas:

I’m actually a square.

Opal Wagnac:

You have street cred, my friend.

Kyle Lagunas:

I’ve got some rizz.

Opal Wagnac:

You’ve got a Kyle high vibe.

Kyle Lagunas:

Well, listen, let me back it up because I really like where you’re going with this. You and I had been in this space for a while, right?

Opal Wagnac:

Yes.

Kyle Lagunas:

And you are new into this role, and I’m actually really excited for this role for you because we need really passionate but also informed voices that are really pushing this narrative forward, that are challenging the industry. Especially from the solution-provider side, especially focused on SMB and mid-market.

Opal Wagnac:

Yes.

Kyle Lagunas:

Everybody’s ignoring this whole… Which is the hugest employer market in the world.

Opal Wagnac:

It is.

Kyle Lagunas:

And we’re all talking about enterprise issues. So I love this for you.

Opal Wagnac:

Thank you.

Kyle Lagunas:

But look, you and I know that AI, we’ve been talking about AI in the space for a while. And not even that long ago, three years ago, it was a buzzword. We were just talking about it as a future thing.

Opal Wagnac:

Exactly.

Kyle Lagunas:

And literally overnight it has become ubiquitous.

Opal Wagnac:

Of course.

Kyle Lagunas:

You’re saying, I’m not going to ask if a restaurant has electricity. I’m not going to ask if HR is using AI. I want to know, how are you using AI?

Opal Wagnac:

Yeah. So this is your new baseline if you think about it, right? So many of us work for SaaS companies. Your company wouldn’t exist if the internet wasn’t there, right? So many of us have jobs. My job didn’t exist 45 years ago. So just even thinking it through, we’ll now have to be at the cusp of like, well, what are the new jobs going to be if AI is the baseline? So if the internet was the baseline, here we are today. Can you imagine if AI is the baseline?

As a matter of fact, I don’t even think we’ll put those two letters together again. Because no one even says the internet anymore. People just say Wi-Fi. It augments itself from one generation to the next. So I can only imagine what my kids are going to call it. They may call it, I don’t know, the internet went to the what? The cloud?

Kyle Lagunas:

I mean, do we still talk about the cloud?

Opal Wagnac:

I know, right?

Kyle Lagunas:

Well, look, before we even get there, I feel like HR is feeling this pressure. We have to get to a point of literacy. The business is asking us all these questions about AI. And like, I don’t know, girl, I’m an HR expert. I’m not an AI expert. But I honestly am feeling this massive paradigm shift where, and this is the tough part for HR, is being an HR expert’s not enough.

You have to know how this stuff works and how this stuff doesn’t work, what it does and what it doesn’t do. Because we do, in order to be effective leaders and effective stewards of the trust of the workforce, we have to make sure that we are actually using these things effectively. And ethically. And so we do need to get better versed in these. It can’t just be the internet. It can’t just be AI. We need to really start to figure this stuff out.

Are you finding in your role that you are having opportunities to answer some of these questions and lean into some of these things? What are some of the stuff that you’re really trying to get done at isolved?

Opal Wagnac:

Right, right. So just looking at the world of, especially like you mentioned before, when you’re looking at AI, you’re looking at all of these solutions. We should not stop questioning. Just because it’s there, we need more critical thinkers. And I emphasize that word critical. Criticize the AI. Please do. Just to make sure that you’re also not creating the same repetitive mistakes. And now all you deal is-

Kyle Lagunas:

You can’t take anything for granted.

Opal Wagnac:

Yeah, just take it and you’re systematizing it too. And if we’re really going to try and truly be these change agents, to me, HR is a change agent. So accept your role as a change agent and start making some changes. So even if the AI is telling you X, Y, Z, start challenging it. Okay, is this what we want for the future? Especially in an area like here at HR Tech, you see a lot on talent acquisition. And there’s been so much that has been done. At isolved we’ve done a tremendous amount of work around talent acquisition, especially even though we’re servicing the SMB and that mid-market space.

Kyle Lagunas:

Which is underserved, to be honest.

Opal Wagnac:

It’s very underserved. And I believe it was a stat like 99% of all businesses in the U.S. have less than 500 employees. So just think about that. Yes, there is a churn rate, but there’s also a much more impressive growth rate too. And so if they’re also trying to fish from the same pond as those larger enterprises, they should be able to get the same good talent.

Kyle Lagunas:

They have the same problems. They might not be at the same scale, but it’s…

Opal Wagnac:

Exactly.

Kyle Lagunas:

Right?

Opal Wagnac:

So everything is fair game for them too. So they deserve the same type of enterprise-grade solutions, so to speak. They deserve the right type of AI solutions.

Kyle Lagunas:

Well, you know what they deserve, what they also need? Is to know they can trust their partners.

Opal Wagnac:

Oh, 1000%.

Kyle Lagunas:

That’s one thing that I think is really interesting about y’all’s approach is you really are layering in best practice consulting and professional services with the technology too. I’ve seen, and you have too, a lot of people in the space, you can build a mousetrap and you got to hand over the mousetrap with the book to implement it. And sorry, I’m a technology vendor. You do what you need to do. I did my part, which was give you the software. I really like seeing you guys committed to helping your customers succeed.

Opal Wagnac:

Absolutely.

Kyle Lagunas:

Especially knowing you and your passion and your opinions. We need it. Right? It can’t be kid gloves. Like I said, the problems that HR leaders face in a global enterprise, the scale might be bigger, but we are facing those problems on the home front too.

Opal Wagnac:

Exactly, exactly.

Kyle Lagunas:

And we need have somebody that’s going to help us navigate this next level.

Opal Wagnac:

Yeah. Because technology’s not going to solve all your problems. Let me say that again for the people in the back. Technology is not going to solve all of your problems. So there’s going to be some times where you actually want to get on the phone and not be prompted. You actually want to speak to a real human because you’re dealing with people. It’s a very dynamic world that HR basically has to serve. And our tastes, our styles, everything changes. So if everything is constantly changing, you’re also going to need to deal with some very complex issues.

And the beauty about what isolved does is that we do not shy away from that service model. We recognize the fact that yes, there’s plenty of our customers. We have over 177,000 customers. So we take our same learnings from those customers and we produce HR services. Especially even understanding the notion that once upon a time, it was very easy for you to find someone that had 20 years of HR experience. That has been cut in half.

Kyle Lagunas:

I know.

Opal Wagnac:

So where do you find the expertise to move your business forward?

Kyle Lagunas:

Yeah. Absolutely.

Opal Wagnac:

As a business owner, you recognize that there is a need and there is a void. So looking at HR services, looking at talent acquisition services. You know you want to be able to acquire talent. However, actually to really be successful in talent acquisition, you need to be able to market. You can’t just take your job description and plop it out there on Twitter. Good luck with that. You need to be able, like, sorry, you need honey to catch some bees.

Kyle Lagunas:

That is part of the problem, right? I mean, because guess what? They’re competing for talent, not with their direct backyard competitors, they’re competing with those big budget companies too. Right?

Opal Wagnac:

Exactly. Exactly.

Kyle Lagunas:

Well, let me ask you then, if you are going to give one word of advice to folks to navigate this next year ahead, what would it be?

Opal Wagnac:

Well, definitely, I would say expand your circle. Because one thing about just being locked in, you’re never going to understand the problems that you’re about to face. And at the same time, I always tell my kids, learn from other people’s mistakes because you won’t live long enough to make them yourself. So that’s one part of it.

The other part of that is the diversity of thought. Also look around you. I think that there is a lot that we can do there, just even by expanding our circles ever so slightly. We don’t have to look that far. But really doing things in a way that, “Well, she’s not an HR expert, so why would I ask her?” Oh no, you should definitely ask her. Or, “She’s of a different generation.” No, you should definitely ask them too.

And you’ll be surprised that whenever we tend to pigeonhole people based off of their title, the truth is they didn’t just fall out of the sky and be an HR generalist. There was something else before that, too. So for the most part, when you’re engaging with someone, you’re getting the whole person and all of the experiences that make them.

Kyle Lagunas:

You know what this is giving Kamala… You didn’t just fall out of a coconut tree.

Opal Wagnac:

Yeah, you sure did…

Kyle Lagunas:

No, I really love it. I have actually seen, because I’ve been on the conference circuit all year long, and this is the most disruptive year I’ve seen.

Opal Wagnac:

Wow.

Kyle Lagunas:

But I also love seeing the community. People are coming together. They are sharing their war stories and their successes and learning together. No HR person is an island. Find your people. Find us. We care.

Opal Wagnac:

Yes. We’re here.

Kyle Lagunas:

I mean, we have a lot of opinions. I don’t know.

Opal Wagnac:

You’re never short of them, and neither am I.

Kyle Lagunas:

Well, thank you for coming and chatting with me for a little bit. If anybody wants to find you, they can hit you up on LinkedIn?

Opal Wagnac:

Yes, absolutely. You can find me on LinkedIn.

Kyle Lagunas:

All right. Thanks, babe. I’ll catch you again soon.

Opal Wagnac:

All right, love you.

Kyle Lagunas:

And just like that, folks, another fantastic conversation in the books. Huge shout out to Opal for dropping some serious wisdom and for reminding us that tech is only a tool. At the end of the day, it’s the people who behind it who make the real magic happen. That means you. Whether you’re running a global enterprise or a 50-person small business, it’s clear we all face the same challenges. The only difference: scale. And as Opal said, the key to navigating it all: expand your circle. Because let’s be real, none of us are going to live long enough to make every mistake ourselves.

So if today’s episode got you thinking about AI, or had you Googling deductibles mid-show, know that you are not alone. These are the conversations we need to have. And if you’re still curious, definitely hit up Opal on LinkedIn. Check out isolved. She’s the kind of person who tells it like it is, and then helps you figure out what to do next. I absolutely adore you, even if I candidly don’t remember how to pronounce your last name. I’m sorry, Opal.

Anyway, thanks for tuning in my friends. Remember, transformation doesn’t always happen overnight. And you don’t have to go it alone. Keep it real, keep it curious, and keep asking questions, whether it’s from your Roomba, your kid, or Alexa. We’ll catch you on the next one. Until then, stay kind, stay curious, and for the love of Zaza, don’t forget your Wi-Fi password. See you soon.

Tags HR Technology, Recruitment Technology, talent acquisition

Blog

Global TA Day: Recognizing the Recruiter Experience

Post author By Madeline Laurano
Post date September 6, 2023

If you are into HRTech or TATech, you got the memo that today is Global TA Day.

I just asked ChatGPT, ‘What is Global TA Day?” and it responded with;

“If “Global TA Day” exists, it could be a day dedicated to celebrating and raising awareness about talent acquisition (TA) practices and professionals. Talent acquisition involves finding, attracting, and hiring qualified individuals to fill positions within an organization. If this day has been established, it may involve various activities, events, or initiatives to recognize the importance of talent acquisition in the workforce.”

This a friendly, simple response, but if you are in this industry, building tech or following the work of recruiters and TA teams, you know that this day signifies much more. It is a day of appreciation for the people doing the work, connecting job seekers with meaningful opportunities, and helping companies grow.

We studied recruiter experience over a year ago and found that companies need a better understanding of this important role. Fifty-nine percent (59%) of recruiters believe that their role needs to be understood by leadership at their organization. They need to start with the following:

– Understanding Today’s Reality: What pressures are recruiters facing, and how do they feel about their job and the future of talent acquisition?

– Understanding the Role of the Recruiter: How are recruiters spending their time today, and what would they like to focus on?

– Understanding What Resources Recruiters Need: What services and solutions will help recruiters in their jobs?

Talent acquisition is challenging. As companies invest in talent acquisition strategies and technology, they need to understand the challenges that recruiters face today. One in two companies state that IT is more involved in TA technology decisions, yet IT professionals are only sometimes aware of the realities of the labor market. Recruiters can only get the support they need if their reality is validated across the organization.

This divide in how leadership, recruiters, and IT perceive talent acquisition has created different technology adoption experiences. TA and HR leadership are happier with the recruitment technology (73%) they have in place and would be more likely to recommend it to other organizations (91%). One reason for higher satisfaction is that TA leaders are two times more likely to influence these technology decisions directly. Recruiters are more frustrated with their technology and the resources available. Many traditional technology solutions must be designed for the modern recruiter and integrate with their workflow or help them attract and hire talent.

As companies think about the future of TA Tech, they need to understand and validate the recruiter experience and build solutions that will help the individuals doing the work from sourcing to recruitment marketing to interviewing and onboarding new hires.

Happy Global TA Day to everyone working in this amazing industry!

Tags HR Technology, Recruitment Technology, talent acquisition

Blog

2023 HR Technology Trends and Predictions

Post author By Madeline Laurano
Post date January 20, 2023

Predictions are tricky. It is hard to look at the next 12 months and make assumptions about trends when the future seems uncertain. But, through our research and interviews, we see some obvious priorities and shifts in the market just three weeks into the new year. Earlier this week, someone asked me if the investment in HR Tech will continue at the same pace as in 2021 and 2022. My answer is yes. The pandemic and the past three years have changed how companies view automation and technology. And, as companies prepare for any talent transformation, technology is a critical part of that journey. We found that 70% of companies will continue to invest the same or increase their investment even with an economic slowdown.

But, even if investment remains high, it will look different. The band-aid approach to technology which characterized the past few years, will be replaced by more strategic investments in providers (partners) that can deliver value and provide the capabilities and services to support transformation.

Here are a few of my thoughts on trends that will dominate 2023:

Skills will continue to be the most significant trend: Skills have the greatest impact on the future of work and employee experience. Skills are THE trend to watch in HR Technology this year, and companies are looking closely at providers in this space. We just published a study with HCI and found that 82% of companies identified skills as a priority, and 54% of companies are increasing their investment in skills this year. The number one driver is to provide more career development opportunities for talent. A skills-based approach to talent enables companies to offer a fairer hiring process, support strategic workforce planning, and make smarter decisions to enrich reskilling and upskilling talent. Skills impact and transform every single aspect of talent acquisition and management and allow employees to be understood in a more meaningful way. The challenge most companies face is that they take a piecemeal approach to skills- separating the strategy, change management, and technology. This approach delays the impact of a skills-based approach and creates frustration. Over the next year, providers must work with companies to provide a more holistic approach to skills.

Talent Intelligence needs a reckoning: Talent intelligence is the new buzzword in HR Tech, but it is also one of the most misunderstood areas. Talent intelligence platforms are AI-driven platforms that help companies understand the potential and learnability of the workforce. They use large data sets and a skills-based approach to look at talent in a complete way. The challenge is that too many providers are using talent intelligence. Sourcing providers, online reference checking providers, and people analytics providers are all rebranding themselves as talent intelligence. The misuse of this category creates confusion with buyers and minimizes the impact of what these platforms can actually do for companies.

Strategic workforce planning will be a priority: It is not a new category, but it has gained momentum over the past year. As companies enter a period of transformation, understanding the supply and demand for talent is critical. But, only 1 in 2 companies use their workforce planning strategy company-wide. Workforce planning only works when companies have the resources and technology to support it. Even when investing in a core system, workforce planning is still manual, and companies rely on excel. The first generation of workforce planning providers (Aruspex, Vemo, Inforhm) provided advanced capabilities that, unfortunately, did not go mainstream. The good news is that we see existing skills-based platforms and new providers focusing on this area. Our following Aptitude Research report will focus on strategic workforce planning- coming soon…

Contingent workforce management needs to be a priority (but will take time): Some research firms estimate that by 2030, 50% of an average organization’s workforce will be comprised of contingent workers. Unfortunately, most HR leaders and TA leaders are hesitant to take ownership of contingent workforce management. A contingent workforce helps companies fill critical talent gaps, reduce costs and increase overall productivity. In a year when agility and resilience are becoming table stakes for businesses, alternative work arrangements are critical to the future of the workplace. Yet, despite the increased investment in contingent labor, companies still need to overcome many of the same challenges. Most companies need more visibility into this critical workforce segment’s use, spending, and performance. Additionally, cost control and fee models are a concern as companies question their staffing agencies and technology partners’ need more expertise in-house. Contingent workforce management is ripe for transformation. Any strategy around DEI, skills, or workforce planning needs to include contingent workers. Companies must examine what is broken to develop deeper insights and a more effective framework. They must reconsider the ownership, fee models, and partnerships that they have in place.

Alumni programs will be invigorated: We are already seeing a renewed focus on alum programs, which will likely continue this year. Alumni programs support recruitment and employee experience. For example, one organization we interviewed fills 10% of its roles with alums. We will likely see more focus on alums from existing ATS providers, CRM providers, and talent intelligence/skills-based platforms.

Pay transparency will be a focus: 1 in 5 workers will now work in a jurisdiction with pay transparency requirements. But, there is a growing tension between job seekers that want pay transparency and employers that do not. It is impacting remote recruiting and how job descriptions are being created and the ridiculous pay ranges included. Vendors are starting to think about balancing the needs of the candidate and employer. My friend and labor economist, Andrew Flowers, often publishes on the topic, and I recommend following his work at Appcast.

Conversational AI will replace ATS in the high-volume: High-volume industries do not need a traditional ATS. It doesn’t support hourly candidates or busy managers. Companies in these industries are looking at the opportunity of conversational AI to replace the ATS and seeing significant outcomes. McDonald’s is one example of a company that reduced time to fill to 2 days using conversational AI through Paradox. I expect more companies to look at this option over the next year.

2023 will no doubt be full of surprises, but I look forward to the innovation, transformation, and partnerships from the providers in this space. One trend worth following is ChatGPT and its use in talent acquisition. I attended a panel on Recruiting Brainfood today, and some use cases include communication, job descriptions, introductions, and recruiter productivity. I don’t see this replacing assessment, as some have suggested, but it presents exciting options for recruiters and candidates looking for more immediate research.

Tags HR Technology, recruitment marketing, Recruitment Technology, talent acquisition

Blog Uncategorized

HRTech Recap: Key Trends and Leading Providers

Post author By Madeline Laurano
Post date September 21, 2022

This year’s HR Technology Conference did not disappoint.

Last week’s event brought new energy and meaning to an industry that had been disconnected for far too long. In many ways, the conference was a reset and an opportunity for anyone building, buying, or investing in tech to reconnect with people, rethink priorities, and reevaluate solutions.

With startups at center stage in the Pitchfest, and traditional providers reinventing their brands and products, the landscape has completely changed in two years. After reflecting on the past week, a few themes stood out to me – most notably the focus on Women in Tech. The pre-event was standing room only, the Pitchfest had equal representation, and women CEOs and product leaders led many AI innovations. This industry has come a long way.

Below are my thoughts on some major themes and key providers influencing this year’s event.

Skills

The discussion around skills dominated this year’s event. We found that companies that invest in skills development are twice as likely to improve retention and 28% more likely to improve DEI initiatives. Skills are the future of HRTech.

But, not all skills-based providers are created the same. The skills conversation is not a marketing message or an overnight decision. Instead, it is a commitment and an investment by a provider to transform how companies recruit, engage, and retain talent. Unfortunately, some providers misusing terms like talent marketplace and talent intelligence has created confusion around a topic that desperately needs more focus and attention.

Below are a few providers I met with that are leading the way in skills:

Beamery: Beamery has unveiled its Universal Skills Platform as a foundational layer to its solutions. Its acquisition of Flux helped to strengthen its skills approach around internal mobility and the ability to connect the right talent to the right opportunities.
Eightfold: All eyes were on Eightfold again this year. Its skills-based approach and deep learning AI allow companies to understand talent’s full potential better. Eightfold has over 1B profiles and 1M skills, making it one of the largest skills-based providers in HR tech.
Reejig: Reejig is a skills-based platform designed for every type of talent. It has a complete skills ontology that aligns with a company’s job architecture and includes a consumer-grade nudge engine.
Workday: Workday made a major announcement last week by allowing companies to bring skills data in and out of Workday. With technology designed in collaboration with customers and partnerships, including Aon, Degreed, and SkyHive, the Workday skills ecosystem helps organizations import relevant skills data from third-party systems.

Hiring Platforms (Interview and Assessments)

Over the past year, one trend that has emerged is the increased investment in hiring experience platforms (interviewing and assessment). This category has exploded over the past few years- partly because of the push for remote work and the need to reduce bias and improve decision-making. Companies spend millions of dollars on recruitment marketing and EVP strategies and often neglect interviews. Our latest interview study found that 1 in 2 companies lost quality talent due to poor interview processes.

Below are a few providers that I met with this year include:

Criteria Corp: I was surprised and impressed with Criteria Corp. Founded over 15 years ago; it has grown to over 4500 customers with offices in North America and Australia. It provides pre-hire assessments early in the process and structured interview capabilities. It has made several acquisitions over the past few years and is definitely worth watching for anyone interested in this space.
Indeed: Indeed was another surprise this year. As one of the largest providers in TA tech, their enterprise solutions include over 200 assessments, including video job simulations.
HireVue: HireVue provides an OnDemand Video Interviewing (VI) platform, structured interviewing solutions powered by text (Builder), technical and game-based assessments, HireVue Hiring Assistant, and complex scheduling capabilities.
Modern Hire: Modern Hire has over 15 million candidates and enables over 1 million hires in over 20 languages in 200 countries and territories. Modern Hire combines assessments, interview technology, advanced analytics, and artificial intelligence into one solution.
Pillar: Pillar is an interview platform that enables companies to reduce bias in the interview process and improve efficiency through structured interviews, analytics, and coaching.
Sapia: Sapia combines science with experience in a smart interview platform that includes chat interviews, video interviews, analytics, and assessments. It helps companies improve the candidate experience, quality of hire, and decision-making.
TaTio: TaTio (formerly Skillset) is a job simulator that matches candidates to the right opportunities. It was one of the providers in this year’s Pitchfest, and it includes an AI-based job simulator that enables candidates to try out the core tasks of a specific position before they apply for a job.

Also, providers like CrossChq and Searchlight had a large presence at the event. While they do not provide interviewing solutions, their combination of reference checking and predictive analytics improves decision-making and quality of hire.

DEI

One area of HR Tech that I was most disappointed in was DEI. Every provider seems to use DEI as a marketing tagline, yet few offer real capabilities or solutions. Some others have even moved on from DEI to adopt the latest trend. DEI was a key driver in technology decisions two years ago. Today, companies identified efficiency, quality, and experience over reducing bias. However, companies should not sacrifice reducing bias. The right technology can solve multiple outcomes, but companies must be careful when evaluating providers.

Two providers that I will highlight are Textio and iShield. Both use AI to identify language that may be exclusive or filled with bias. In addition, Textio launched a performance management solution last week, and iShield (another Pitchfest contender) integrates with Slack and Teams.

Employee Experience

Companies today must rethink their approach to talent and humanize work. They must focus on the individual, build more meaningful relationships, and provide an experience rooted in inclusivity, humanity, dignity, and trust. This area of HR Technology has grown significantly over the past few years, and we found that 64% of companies are increasing their investment in experience solutions.

A few providers that I met with include:

Click Boarding: Employee experience begins with onboarding. we found that 86% of new hires make their decision to stay in the first 90 days. Click Boarding is an employee experience platform providing onboarding solutions that impact employee growth and retention.
Guild: Guild is a women-owned career opportunity platform. It is designed to provide every employee access to learning and career growth and streamline the cumbersome administration of education benefits. Learners have access to over 2,000 programs that Guild curated from various learning providers, and 70% of its learners are the first people to seek higher education opportunities in their families.
Paradox: Paradox is a conversational AI provider expanding from talent acquisition to employee experience. Its solution better engages talent with 24/7 response times and personalization. Companies use Paradox for many use cases in the employee experience, including onboarding and internal mobility.
Phenom: Phenom fits into several of the categories listed above. It made several announcements last week, including an HRIS platform. Its talent experience platform supports candidates, employees, recruiters, HR, and managers with a broad suite of solutions and an intelligence and integration layer.
Spotlyfe: The winner of the Pitchfest, Spotlyfe is a people-first platform that allows employees to work smarter and live better lives. It includes intentions, gratitude, and analytics.
TeamSense: TeamSense was part of the Pitchfest and offered a text-based solution for front-line workers to improve communication and provide better engagement through channels that are more accessible.

Recruitment Marketing

It is designed to improve the front-end of the recruiting process and tackles most of what the ATS doesn’t do…engaging with individuals before they apply for a job. The most critical capabilities in these systems include career sites, CRM, analytics, apply, job distribution, talent networks, candidate communication, events management, internal mobility, automated scheduling, and employee referrals. These systems have matured over the past few years with intelligent workflows, personalized content driven by AI, omnichannel communication, and more automation.

Below are a few providers I met with last week:

Built-In: Built-In connects tech talent to the right technology companies. Its content and community give tech professionals insights into hiring companies nationwide.
Candidate ID (an iCIMS company): Candidate.ID brings marketing automation to talent pipelining and recruiting ‘in-demand’ talent. It supports enterprise organizations by engaging, nurturing, and converting ready-now talent through use cases that include alums, internal hires, contingent workers, diversity hires, early-career hires, and referrals.
GR8 People: Gr8 People is a global technology platform that supports end-to-end talent acquisition and helps companies source, attract, engage and hire every workforce type in one experience. Built with automated workflows, it provides personalized experiences for every user.
Symphony Talent: Symphony Talent is a recruitment marketing platform and an employer brand partner. It offers technology solutions that include CRM, programmatic advertising, career sites, assessments, and analytics. Its’ service offerings help companies with EVP strategy, career site design, and content marketing.

Big thanks to everyone who made this conference a success! See you next year!

Tags employee experience, HR Technology, Recruitment Technology, talent acquisition

Blog Talent Acquisition Strategies

Conversational AI: Transforming Talent Acquisition

Post author By Madeline Laurano
Post date September 1, 2021

Conversational AI: Transforming Talent Acquisition

On Global TA Day, we want to highlight one of our favorite areas of TA tech today…conversational AI.

In 2020, Aptitude Research published a comprehensive study on conversational AI to understand key drivers, highlight differentiators, and outline the business impact of these solutions. One year later, the talent acquisition landscape has significantly changed. Companies are feeling intense pressure to improve efficiencies, identify quality hires, reduce bias, and humanize the overall experience for both recruiters and candidates. As companies look closely at talent acquisition technology to help lift the administrative burden of recruiting teams and engage with candidates in a more meaningful way, conversational AI checks every box.

Here are the top findings from our report.

Conversational AI Is Not a Point Solution: Companies are still learning the value that conversational AI brings to talent acquisition. Companies that have leveraged these solutions to improve the application or screening processes are already recognizing the impact it can have on areas such as interviewing, onboarding, and internal mobility. Conversational AI is shifting from a quick-fix, point solution to a critical component in an end-to-end talent acquisition strategy. Conversational AI, unlike chatbots, is not a point solution. The more companies adopt these solutions, the more they recognize the potential throughout talent acquisition, and see advancements in use cases.

Conversational AI Is an Intelligent Assistant: Companies often think that candidates do not want to engage with conversational AI. The reality is that individuals are very familiar with conversational AI in their consumer and personal lives. Siri, Alexa, and other assistants help individuals get answers and guidance, and have become a part of daily life. Similar assistance plays a critical role in talent acquisition, offering candidates a “support team” as they go through various stages of their journey.

The ATS and CRM Markets Can’t Compete: Despite several acquisitions and ongoing discussions about conversational AI in the ATS or CRM solutions, only 30% of companies are looking at their existing providers for conversational AI capabilities. Many ATS and CRM providers partner with conversational AI providers even when they have their own capabilities. Conversational AI requires deep domain expertise and a commitment to continuing to innovate and enhance the capabilities and intelligence offered.

Conversational AI Is Still More Than a Chatbot: The 2020 Aptitude Research report outlined the differences between conversational AI and chatbots. But, the confusion around the two still persists today. Companies quickly understand the difference when they implement these solutions, but do not always see it during the evaluation phase. According to Aptitude Research, 84% of companies want more than a basic chatbot to support their talent acquisition efforts. Companies are requiring conversational AI solutions that understand the context around recruiting processes versus basic UI changes from chatbot. They are looking for an intelligent assistant to help both their teams and candidates.

Conversational AI Is Completely Transforming High-Volume Recruiting: Conversational AI is becoming the standard in high-volume recruitment. Currently, 65% of companies have some high-volume recruitment needs that include hourly, gig, volume of hires, and number of applicants. Conversational AI gives these companies a competitive advantage, helping them to compete for talent, fill positions quickly, and improve quality of hire. Companies are automating 90-95% of process, screening and scheduling in under three minutes, and hiring in two days.

Recruiters in Professional Hiring Also See Massive Benefits: Recruiters are bogged down every day with repetitive tasks that keep them from doing the work they enjoy and the work that impacts the business the most – finding and meeting with more talented people. Companies in centralized, professional recruiting organizations state that 72% of recruiters are more likely to stay at their current job with the use of conversational AI, largely because time spent on administrative tasks is reduced by 50%.

The Audience for Conversational AI Is Expanding to Employees: Most companies are familiar with the use of conversational AI to support sourcing, apply, and interview scheduling. But, the interest in this solution for onboarding and internal mobility has increased this year. Conversational AI is not only candidate-centric, it is people-centric. Nineteen percent (19%) of companies using conversational AI are leveraging these solutions in the new hire process and 12% in internal mobility. Remote recruiting is the primary driver for the increased demand in these areas. Most companies rely on their HRMS or ATS for onboarding capabilities, and while these solutions include workflows and forms compliance, they do little to enhance the new hire experience.

Tags Conversational AI, HR Technology, Recruitment, Recruitment Technology

Blog Talent Acquisition Strategies

Marketing Automation and CRM: Understanding the Difference in Talent Acquisition

Post author By Madeline Laurano
Post date August 27, 2021

Marketing Automation and CRM: Understanding the Difference in Talent Acquisition

We are starting to conduct demos and interviews for our Recruitment Marketing Platform/CRM Index report publishing this fall. Last week, someone asked me if the greatest challenge is the lack of adoption from employers or the lack of capabilities from providers.

The answer is both.

Companies that invest in recruitment marketing and CRM do not always have the expertise or change management needed for these systems to be effective. Aptitude Research found that only 2% of companies use all the functionality in the CRM. Not an ideal situation when over 60% of companies spend more on their CRM than on their ATS.

But adoption is not the only frustration in recruitment marketing technology. Most providers offer CRM and career sites but lack marketing automation. CRM and marketing automation serves two distinct purposes in helping companies nurture and engage with talent before applying for a job. In consumer marketing, companies may commonly invest in both Salesforce and Marketo (now part of Adobe). In addition, they may use Hubspot (which offers both). But, the value and difference between the two are clear. Many companies are not clear about what marketing automation does and what providers to consider in talent acquisition.

What is Marketing Automation?

Marketing automation helps companies better engage and nurture talent by automating marketing tasks and letting companies know which candidates are cold, warm, and “ready-now.” It sits at the top of the funnel and manages all interactions with talent, including when they visit a career site, open an email, open a job advertisement, etc. It solves what the ATS, LinkedIn, and CRM cannot do – informing recruiters when someone is ready to be hired and engaging that individual in a meaningful way. Integrating CRM and marketing automation software can increase a company’s recruitment marketing capabilities and improve the experience.

How Does it Help?

Marketing automation helps companies understand the talent they are attracting, manage talent pipelines more effectively, and provide a better experience to both recruiters and candidates. Some of the use cases include:

Lead Nurturing: As today’s companies face challenges attracting talent and managing applicant volume, they need to nurture their candidate relationships over time. Candidates are not always ready to apply for a job with their first engagement. With marketing automation, companies can check in with candidates, create more meaningful relationships, and track engagement levels to know when candidates are “ready now.”
Target Audience: With marketing automation, companies can better understand their target talent and track who is interested and engaged. It uses a multi-channel approach to understand what content individuals are interested in, how they want to receive that content and then serves up relevant information. In addition, it provides visibility into the marketing activities to see what activities are working and what needs to change.
Analytics: Once a campaign has ended, the system generates analytics showing how successful the campaign was and what may need to change for the future. Analytics provide insights into candidates that are cold, warm, and ready now.

Who are the Providers?

Companies have multiple options for marketing automation in marketing, including providers like MailChimp, Keap, and Constant Contact. And, many providers have been acquired over the past few years, including Pardot by Salesforce, Eloqua by Oracle, and Marketo by Adobe. As a result, marketing automation is a critical area of investment for the modern marketing professional. But, in talent acquisition, this category has not taken off in the same way.

Some sourcing providers like Entelo have tried to transform marketing automation and build a category but faced internal challenges. Some CRM providers have tried to improve talent pipelines and candidate nurturing but still fall short. A few providers are bringing more awareness to marketing automation and gaining traction, including Candidate.ID and Herefish by Bullhorn. Candidate.ID is one provider that stands out for its commitment to marketing automation, ease of use, and ability to help companies attract in-demand talent. Herefish by Bullhorn enables companies to automate workflows, processes, and communication to accelerate staffing firm’s growth. With these providers, recruiters receive notifications when candidates are interested, and their profiles are updated in real-time, reducing time-to-fill, improving candidate engagement, and increasing conversion rates.

As we get closer to publishing our recruitment marketing/CRM index reports, marketing automation will be a theme we cover. It provides companies with a better way to engage and nurture talent where a traditional CRM falls short.

Tags CRM, HR Technology, marketing automation, Recruitment Technology, talent acquisition

Blog Talent Acquisition Strategies Uncategorized

New Research: Conversational AI in Talent Acquisition

Post author By Madeline Laurano
Post date June 22, 2020

One of the biggest changes in talent acquisition technology over the past year has been the uptick in conversational AI. Companies are looking for better ways to communicate with candidates, improve efficiencies, and offer simplicity- especially through the past three months.

I am excited about Aptitude’s latest research report on this topic in partnership with Paradox. Currently, 38% of companies are investing in conversational AI compared to 7% last year.

Below are some of the key findings from this research:

1. Conversational AI is more than a chatbot. Many of the misperceptions around conversational AI stem from the belief that it is simply a chatbot. Chatbots provide value in giving responses to candidates in real-time. These responses are typically canned answers to basic questions delivered through text. Conversational AI offers a more sophisticated and more personalized solution to engage candidates through multiple forms of communication. Conversational AI gets smarter through use and connects recruiters and candidates in a more meaningful way. In fact, 39% of companies using conversational AI state that the most significant benefit is improving the candidate experience (Aptitude Research). By referring to this technology as “chatbots,” companies miss the many use cases for engaging talent and the numerous benefits beyond saving time.

2. Companies that use Conversational AI see high adoption and satisfaction. Low adoption and poor satisfaction are two common complaints with talent acquisition technology. According to Aptitude Research, 79% of companies see the value in their conversational AI investment. One reason is that these companies see greater adoption across their talent acquisition teams. While companies are using only 3% of their ATS functionality and only 2% of their recruitment marketing functionality, nearly 60% of companies are using all of the capabilities in their conversational AI solutions (Aptitude Research). Conversational AI is intuitive and straightforward when compared to many other areas of talent acquisition technology.

3. The Conversational AI market is growing. Conversational AI is quickly becoming a crowded market; many providers seem to have a chatbot, which creates confusion and misperceptions about how to evaluate and select a partner. While several of the ERP and ATS providers have chatbots or are looking to build chatbots, conversational AI solutions are few and far between. Companies that want to transform talent acquisition through better engagement and an improved experience are looking at stand-alone providers. According to Aptitude Research, nearly 60% of companies are looking at stand-alone providers over their ATS providers.

4. The investment remains steady during this global pandemic. While other areas of talent acquisition technology have been slowing down during today’s global pandemic, the investment in conversational AI remains strong, with over 30% of companies still investing or planning to invest in these solutions in the next year. As companies face new realities with remote recruiting, candidate communication, and the future of work, conversational AI solutions can support companies through this uncertainty.

5. Companies should look beyond candidates. When considering conversational AI, most companies think about the apply process or the screening process. Yet, many companies are expanding their use of these solutions into areas such as interviewing, onboarding, and the employee experience. The benefits of consistent communication, real-time feedback, and 24/7 access should benefit more than candidates. It should reach employees and HR teams as well. Companies are exploring the use of conversational AI to support the full employee experience. McDonald’s just announced plans to hire 260,000 people this summer and conversational AI is a big part of its’ story.

6. Companies across many industries are leveraging these solutions. Conversational AI is disrupting many industries. The belief is that these solutions are only suited for retail and restaurants. Aptitude Research found that the most significant growth was also in financial services, healthcare, and aerospace.

This report is available today and includes the business impact of conversational AI, use cases beyond talent acquisition, and a McDonald’s case study.

Tags chatbots, Conversational AI, Recruitment Technology, talent acquisition