On this episode of Transformation Realness, I’m joined by the fabulous Rebecca Carr, CEO of SmartRecruiters, to talk about shaking up talent acquisition with personalized hiring workflows, API-first platforms, and tools so intuitive they feel like unlocking your phone.
With a deep history in product innovation and a fresh CEO perspective, Rebecca is laser-focused on three themes: meeting users where they are, empowering creativity through smart systems, and designing recruiting tools that keep pace with the speed of work today. Hiring shouldn’t feel like a chore — and Rebecca is here to make sure it doesn’t.
From making managers’ lives easier to scaling for global needs, Rebecca’s vision is exactly what this space needs right now. If you’re ready to reimagine recruiting technology for today’s fast-paced world, this episode is a must-listen.
Hiring Should Feel Effortless
Recruiting tech has evolved, but let’s not kid ourselves — it’s still clunky in too many places. It’s a pain Rebecca is all too familiar with herself, from her background in TA and experiences building out the SmartRecruiters team. “I’m hiring a CMO. And I’m an ATS creator — and the last thing I want to go do is log into my ATS and provide feedback,” she says. “I just want to do it in Slack or I want to do it on my phone or something like that.”
That’s where SmartRecruiters is flipping the script. Rebecca’s focus is on meeting users where they are — whether that’s integrating seamlessly with Slack, Teams or even a retail manager’s phone. It’s about cutting out unnecessary steps and making hiring feel natural.
“We’ve invested a lot in the tech stack so that our customers can customize user experiences,” Rebecca says. “Because change management is hard. The last thing your users want to do right now is [have to] sit on a webinar and learn how to use their recruiting tool.”
API-First Platforms: Building Smarter, Not Bigger
Rebecca knows that trying to do everything for everyone is a recipe for mediocrity. Instead, SmartRecruiters is leaning into its strength as a recruiting workflow orchestration engine, partnering strategically to bring the best tools to the table.
“If I could snap my fingers and do one thing to SmartRecruiters right now, I would make it 100% API-able,” Rebecca shares. Customers love what SmartRecruiters offers but need flexibility to tweak it for regional quirks. Her answer: design systems. You don’t like that box? Delete it. Want to make it work with ServiceNow? Done. It’s all about giving users the power to create experiences that fit their world, not the other way around.
This approach isn’t about shiny object syndrome: it’s about intentional partnerships that align with a shared vision. Rebecca’s goal for SmartRecruiters is to provide solutions for high-volume, high-velocity hiring at a global scale. “I’m a recruiting workflow orchestration engine,” Rebecca says. “My specialty is orchestrating a beautiful recruiting process.”
Innovating for a New Era
Rebecca’s leadership philosophy is as modern as her approach to tech. She understands that great innovation starts with the right mindset — and the right people. “We’re in an interesting moment. The people that approach with creativity are, generally speaking, people that are innovators at heart, creatives at heart, and those are great product and engineering leaders,” Rebecca says.
That’s why she’s focused on building a team that not only dreams big but executes with precision. “I have invested a lot in finding the right people to be the product and engineering bench,” she says. “Because it’s not even about building innovative products, but also doing it in a really efficient way.” For Rebecca, innovation goes beyond ideas — it’s about transforming them into scalable solutions that drive measurable impact.
At SmartRecruiters, this spirit of innovation touches every part of the business, from reimagining talent acquisition strategies to addressing global challenges and fostering strong customer partnerships. The result is a forward-thinking organization equipped to tackle today’s complex recruiting landscape.
Rebecca isn’t just making waves in talent acquisition. She’s redefining what’s possible. From personalized hiring workflows to API-first platforms, her vision is turning recruiting from a clunky chore into an intuitive, user-friendly experience.
Like Rebecca says, “We’re back.” And honestly? We’re here for it.
Catch this episode for all the tea on the future of recruiting tech, and as always, stay bold, stay real, and keep making work better for everyone.
People in This Episode
- Rebecca Carr: LinkedIn
Transcript
Kyle Lagunas:
Hello, my little blueberries. Welcome back to Transformation Realness. It’s the only show all about people who are doing their best to make the world work less sh*tty and have the guts to share their story: the good, the bad, and most of all, the real. It’s produced in partnership with RepCap and hosted by yours truly, dazzling, defiant, demonstrably insane, Kyle Lagunas, Head of Strategy and Principal Analyst at Aptitude Research, the leading boutique research firm covering HR tech and transformation.
Get into it!
Today we’ve got Rebecca Carr. Yes, that Rebecca Carr, who is now rocking the CEO title at SmartRecruiters. She’s been a product leader, an innovator, and now she’s in the driver’s seat to make some serious moves in the world of talent acquisition. From creating ATS magic to spearheading new strategies, Rebecca is here to push the boundaries of how we think about hiring.
And spoiler alert — incremental change just isn’t her thing.
Also, featuring my very good friend and dear business partner Madeline Laurano, who as you know is the founder of Aptitude Research. All right, well, so I have to say, isn’t it wild that all three of us, Rebecca, Madeline, and I, live in the Boston area, but we had to fly all the way to Las Vegas to see each other in the flesh? And somebody got stuck in a middle seat again, but I digress. Let’s focus on what really matters, big ideas about the future of work. Let’s dive in.
Welcome back to Transformation Realness Live from HR Tech. I brought an extra special friend today. Hi Madeline.
Madeline Laurano:
Hi, Kyle.
Kyle Lagunas:
How you doing?
Madeline Laurano:
I am good.
Kyle Lagunas:
Are you ready to interview one of our favorite people?
Madeline Laurano:
I am. I’m very excited for this.
Kyle Lagunas:
I am too. Hi, Rebecca. Welcome to the show.
Rebecca Carr:
Hi. I’m happy to be here.
Kyle Lagunas:
It’s so weird that we all live in the Boston Metro…
Rebecca Carr:
We do.
Kyle Lagunas:
… And we’re seeing each other in the flesh in Las Vegas. What are we doing here?
Rebecca Carr:
I know.
Madeline Laurano:
Kyle and I have not seen each other in person in months.
Kyle Lagunas:
Literally.
Rebecca Carr:
Really? Seriously?
Kyle Lagunas:
Yes.
Rebecca Carr:
Oh, well, Boston’s like the best city to get together in too.
Kyle Lagunas:
I know. There’s literally always traffic. I left my house at 5:30 or 5:15 yesterday morning, and there was traffic.
Rebecca Carr:
Really?
Kyle Lagunas:
What are we doing here?
Rebecca Carr:
There was none when I was getting- I think we were on the same flight, by the way.
Kyle Lagunas:
Delta?
Rebecca Carr:
Yeah. 7:00 AM?
Kyle Lagunas:
I was dead.
Rebecca Carr:
I didn’t catch you, but I was like, I think I saw you running through the airport and I was like, I wonder if he was on my flight and I didn’t say hi.
Madeline Laurano:
He was in the middle seat.
Rebecca Carr:
That would’ve been-
Kyle Lagunas:
I was in the middle seat.
Rebecca Carr:
Oh, no.
Kyle Lagunas:
Like a peasant.
Rebecca Carr:
To be fair. I’m on a middle seat going home. I wanted to go direct.
Kyle Lagunas:
Don’t they know how important you are?
Madeline Laurano:
You’re a CEO.
Kyle Lagunas:
Speaking of important.
Madeline Laurano:
I am.
Kyle Lagunas:
Mama’s got a new job, right?
Rebecca Carr:
Yeah. It doesn’t feel that different.
Kyle Lagunas:
It’s like Facebook official now.
Rebecca Carr:
It is. It’s Facebook official.
Kyle Lagunas:
Well, talk to us about it.
Rebecca Carr:
Yeah, I’ve been with this company for so long. I started in 2014, ran product, launched the original product, went through all that hiring success phase. Remember the book?
Kyle Lagunas:
Yeah.
Rebecca Carr:
And all the conferences?
Kyle Lagunas:
Yeah.
Rebecca Carr:
It was great. Left. Came back two years later. Ran product at a interesting moment. We were going through a lot of transition. Jerome had just stepped down. CEO- doesn’t feel that different though. We’re such a good community within SmartRecruiters. Our people are really high tenure, lots of passion for this space, lots of former recruiters, people that have a lot of customer empathy. It feels right and this is a critical moment for us, too.
We have to make some changes as it relates to how we think about the recruiting space. There’s a lot of urgency around adopting new technology, and I want to be a leader there. I don’t want to sit around anymore and wait to make some incremental change to a button or a color. I think we need to do something really different and that’s what we’re out to do.
Kyle Lagunas:
We love TA. It’s where we’ve always lived. But it’s also probably the most crowded corner of the market.
Rebecca Carr:
Oh, yeah.
Kyle Lagunas:
It’s changed now, but if you had a use case, you got $20 million seed round to build an AI-enabled enterprise-grade platform, BS BS. For you all to stay the course, we were here for it, but you also, you want to change the course, right? You want to be a part of catalyzing that change?
Rebecca Carr:
Yeah.
Kyle Lagunas:
Talk to us about it.
Rebecca Carr:
We’re… In my session in a little bit. I’m going to talk a little bit about the journey generally speaking of ATS. Like my first ATS that I built, the customer use case was I need to be organized. That’s all I care about. I’ve had so much paper, I have no idea what to do with it. No one’s helping me, bring it online. It’s how the Teleos of the world show up and things like that.
But tech just listened, delivered, but didn’t strive to do better until customers showed up and said, by the way, I’m in a war for talent. You need to be in the cloud and lower cost and more collaborative and easier to use. Thus, the SmartRecruiters of the world show up and they do a good job.
But now the whole market is stalling and trying to wait and see what AI and intelligence do for it. Meanwhile, user expectation — candidates, but also hiring managers, people in the field — is accelerating past us. I think we need to start thinking about hiring as not this long process where you have to click through a bunch of buttons, but how is it personalized, adaptive? How does it meet your flow of work? I am hiring a CMO right now. I’m ATS creator.
Kyle Lagunas:
We know somebody.
Madeline Laurano:
We know somebody.
Rebecca Carr:
You know somebody?
Madeline Laurano:
We do.
Rebecca Carr:
Give me referrals.
Madeline Laurano:
We have a good recommendation.
Rebecca Carr:
I’m hiring a CMO, and I’m an ATS creator, and the last thing I want to go do is log into my ATS and provide feedback. I just want to do it in Slack or I want to do it on my phone or something like that. That is very common. TA teams have been reduced by near 50%, at least in our customer base. Hiring managers have to do a lot more and they have to do it faster and there’s a lot of urgency around their hires and tech isn’t showing up for that moment.
I think that this next generation for us is going to be about that. Meeting the users where they are. It’s going to be about more personalization. We’ve invested a lot in the tech stack so that our customers can customize user experiences. Because change management is hard. The last thing your users want to do right now is also sit on a webinar and learn how to use their recruiting tool. They just want to just like the same way you open your iPhone and suddenly face ID exists. That’s what they want hiring to feel like.
Kyle Lagunas:
But they do want to come to a webinar of research-
Rebecca Carr:
Oh, yeah. That maybe.
Kyle Lagunas:
…with Madeline and Kyle at Aptitude.
Rebecca Carr:
Of course. But certainly not on how to create a job. No, that feels bad.
Madeline Laurano:
That feels bad. It’s interesting because, let’s talk about ATS market for a little bit. We all love it. We have been in the ATS market for a long time. SmartRecruiters has taken different approaches. I think when SmartRecruiters first came out into the scene, it was the cool provider. Everybody would talk about, okay, you can invest in your HCM suite, you can get a best of breed, traditional best of breed, or you can get the cool provider at the time, and that was SmartRecruiters.
Things have shifted in the market and we’re seeing a lot of companies saying, okay, we’re just going to go with our HCM provider. Now we’re seeing new providers like Paradox and Eightfold launching ATSs. The market’s changing quite a bit even though it’s stale. We talk about [inaudible] right now. The approach for SmartRecruiters, in the past, you’ve taken was to build this huge ecosystem of partners, build out a marketplace.
Then you went in a different direction and said, we can actually do all those things as well. You built programmatic, you built sourcing, you built a lot of these capabilities in one platform to do more with less. What do you see as you look at your new announcement in SmartRecruiters and the new vision that you have? Is it going to be a partner ecosystem? Is it going to be, do everything and partner where you can?
Rebecca Carr:
Yeah. Two comments on that because when you describe it that way, it sounds like shiny object syndrome, which frankly is we’re not alone. There’s a lot of vendors in the market that I think-
Kyle Lagunas:
It’s a lot of shiny stuff right now.
Rebecca Carr:
Yeah, exactly.
Madeline Laurano:
And you’re responding to what the buyers are looking for. Sometimes they’re looking for one at the time and it shifts.
Rebecca Carr:
Or just investments in adjacencies. Some of our direct competitors have gone in directions where I’m just like, oh, I wouldn’t have thought about that. But it’s an opportunity to respond to customer need and they run at it. For us, a couple of things. One, focus is going to be important for us in the next chapter. We have a problem to solve, but we can’t solve that problem for everyone. I think the approach we’re taking with this product strategy is, how do we think about specifically high-volume, high-velocity hiring at a global scale and how do we make that more agent-enabled?
Not just for the candidate. Candidate engagement, candidate experience, obviously a lot of opportunity for AI. But for the hirer, like the store manager sitting on the ground that doesn’t care about the recruiting tool, but they care about hiring. It’s a more focused strategy that I think is not something where you see as many of the HCM providers, because in those circumstances they don’t have the big Workdays. Or if they have the SAP, they don’t engage with it. Because decentralized has not historically been a real vertical for them.
The other way that I think about it is, I’m a recruiting workflow orchestration engine. My specialty is orchestrating a beautiful recruiting process. I’m not going to be a specialist in people analytics, even though that’s important to understanding how you should use a recruiting workflow effectively. I’m not going to be a specialist in job distribution or programmatic advertising or in Zoom interview transcription.
Probably just not going to be where I go. But there are great best-of-breed vendors out there that my UI should be able to adapt to so that I can give a great experience at scale like that, leveraging the best of a lot of people. But that’s going to require that I don’t just go and see, hey, anybody that wants to can be a partner of SmartRecruiters and all of you are going to have the same experience.
I’m going to have to actually go and build relationships with people in a more focused way to say, does your product strategy align to mine? Are we going to go to market together effectively? Are we going to make sure our customers are mutually successful? It’s a more strategic way of approaching ecosystem, but it’s one that I’m very open about. It’s critical. It’s just not going to be the same way that I think we did it the first time, which is here’s some APIs anybody’s that’s interested.
Kyle Lagunas:
I feel like we saw that play out really well. I felt like the intentional ecosystem design. I was at Beamery when this happened. Workday had just invested in Beamery. Paradox was coming up, HiredScore was coming up, and the three of us were going to market together to Workday customers. They were like, well, great. Part of the pitch here from HRIT was, we’re going to go on Workday recruiting, but then we can build our own preferred tech stack on top of this. Look, we have these partners that all do different things. I think the intentionality is, I absolutely love to hear it. You also were one of the first providers to really lean into the hiring manager. Do you remember their hiring manager mobile app?
Rebecca Carr:
Oh yeah.
Madeline Laurano:
Yeah.
Kyle Lagunas:
Isn’t so fun that mobile apps are coming back?
Rebecca Carr:
There might be better applications of that in the future.
Kyle Lagunas:
I hope so. I hope so. Not that it was bad before.
Rebecca Carr:
No.
Kyle Lagunas:
I actually think it was HR Tech, like 2012 or something that I did a writeup on that when I was a blogger.
Rebecca Carr:
Oh, yeah. That is why H&M and Primark and people like that buy SmartRecruiters, because none of those people are sitting at a desk. They need something.
Kyle Lagunas:
Guess what? Those are still enterprise companies. We’re not talking about solving problems for just a small franchisee.
Rebecca Carr:
No, actually, where we have accelerated as a business over the last several years is really international scale. We are as much a European company as we are a North American company right now. It has to do with a decision, frankly, that Jerome made a long time ago where I thought he was crazy. He’s like, “We’re just going to go global really fast.” I was like, “Oh, but we haven’t conquered one market yet.” He was like, “Nope, we’re going to do it anyway.” As a result, we’ve been very successful at supporting multinational, and that is a hard thing to go do. Even if the best competitors on this floor decided they wanted to lean into that, it would take them years to really establish. Me keeping that gap is important. You’ll still see us lean into international, international, international.
Madeline Laurano:
You don’t just have customers that are international customers. You have feet on the ground, you have conferences that are international.
Rebecca Carr:
Yeah, conferences. Yeah, we just launched those again.
Kyle Lagunas:
I know. I’m so glad.
Rebecca Carr:
I know. They’re so fun. We throw a good party here at SmartRecruiters.
Madeline Laurano:
You throw a great party. Are you going to be doing analyst days at these conferences?
Rebecca Carr:
Oh, yes. Well, we did one day this year. We did EMEA. We’re doing APAC in two weeks and next year we’ll do more. We’re going to extend them out. The content’s fantastic. The energy’s good. It’s who we are. As much as we’re a vendor to a lot of our customers, customer relationships have always been a key pillar of our success. We really enjoy spending time with them, and I think that those conferences are a good opportunity for us all to come together and celebrate.
Kyle Lagunas:
Yeah, it’s community. Are you seeing as much? Because Rebecca had mentioned maybe I want to do this in Slack. Maybe I don’t want to log into my at ATS. I’m seeing a lot more vendors that are like, you know what? Remember UX/UI was a big thing? Now they’re like, you know what? We actually want to be interface agnostic. Bring your own interface, choose your own engagement portal. However you want to come, we’re ready for you. The API strategy shifts not just to background check providers and assessment providers. It’s actually into these enterprise systems.
Madeline Laurano:
100%. I think I got an email from a corporation a couple of weeks ago and they saw a big HCM provider announced a collaboration tool, but it wasn’t integrated with Teams. For them that was a deal breaker. It is, and I think with co-pilots, what we’re seeing with a of co-pilots and assistants right now is it’s great to have in the product, but what value [do] you get out of having that in your work tech?
Rebecca Carr:
Yes.
Kyle Lagunas:
Yes. That’s a layer into that orchestration concept. It’s like, I’m orchestrating? Then I’ve got to account for anybody’s user preference.
Rebecca Carr:
If I could snap my fingers and do one thing to SmartRecruiters right now, I would make it 100% API-able. I’m close. I’m getting there. It’s part of the strategy. But really our customers are saying, “I thought- I love you guys. I thought I could buy a fully productized end-to-end and I could push it out to my field, but the reality is in this country versus this country, I do need that box gone. How do I get rid of it?” Well, design systems. You can just delete it or create your own experiences. You can push them into platforms like ServiceNow, is a good example.
Madeline Laurano:
Where they spend their time.
Rebecca Carr:
Where they spend their time.
Madeline Laurano:
It makes complete sense.
Rebecca Carr:
That is a big- where with our announcements this fall we’re launching with a bunch of design partners and a big piece of what they’re leaning into is that.
Kyle Lagunas:
Yeah, Rebecca, your history in the space I think really sets you up as a chief executive officer at this time. You are not coming in with just completely fresh eyes. We do need to know the space. There are some that come in and they pound their chest about we’re not HR people, we’re not TA people, we’re technology people. It’s like, well, that’s cool, but right now you need to know what your customer’s up against.
Rebecca Carr:
You got to learn from the mistakes of the past right now.
Madeline Laurano:
You’ve got the expertise. I have a question-
Kyle Lagunas:
You need to know the market in ecosystem. Yeah.
Madeline Laurano:
I have a question about this new role for you. Because we’re seeing more CEOs that are coming from a product background and that’s not something we’ve seen before. That would be like, wow, now there’s a lot of, Paradox, Adams had a product, so we’re seeing a lot of examples of that now. We’ve got AI and generative AI now completely changing how you think about tech. How does this change how you approach your team and who you’re hiring? Are you looking for a completely different skill set than you were as head of product now as CEO? Or is this just an extension and an evolution?
Rebecca Carr:
Well, certainly I feel like I have invested a lot in finding the right people to be the product and engineering bench. Because it’s not even about building innovative products, but also doing it in a really efficient way. You need to start looking at an R&D organization as, okay, you’re going to have to innovate. You’re going to have to do great things, but you can’t add one person. You need to start practicing what you preach and adopting AI technology in order to make yourself more efficient while also driving growth.
Because we’re in an interesting moment. The people that approach with that creativity are generally speaking, people that are innovators at heart, creatives at heart, and those are great product and engineering leaders. When I came in, I focused on those roles first and my SVP product, she’s amazing. She was a founder that sold the HiBob and just loves this space, loves solving this problem and loves a data problem. Which this is going to, in the new world where UIs disappear, this is a data industry.
Kyle Lagunas:
Where AIs are talking to Ais?
Rebecca Carr:
Yes. You’ve got to be highly technical and you need to be ready to educate. But educate in a way that the market can understand-
Kyle Lagunas:
Enablement.
Rebecca Carr:
… a relatable way. I’ve leaned in a lot to that. You see a lot more product speakers generally speaking, versus CROs and CMOs. But I’ve had to also balance that with a C-suite that are pure operators that can think through not just how to drive efficiency in R&D, but in sales and marketing. How do we think through balancing PLG motions, like consumption motions with subscription software? Those are good product and revenue problems. But not your tried and true seller that’s just sold enterprise software for the last 20 years. It’s a different moment and profile and feel like it’s coming together. We’ve got new CFO, new CMO coming in. We’ve got our new product leader, obviously. Good engineering DNA, tenure. Yeah, I feel good about it. I got a good bench.
Kyle Lagunas:
Literally, you’re such a badass. I’m sitting here.
Madeline Laurano:
I love it.
Kyle Lagunas:
Got it.
Madeline Laurano:
Yeah, I remember seeing you probably at the last hiring success event that I was at. I know there were probably a couple after the last one, and you were the star of the show. You gave the keynote, the opening keynote, you opened it up, you led the analyst session. Jerome was there obviously. We were both on a panel with Jerome at that event.
Kyle Lagunas:
Jerry walked in as the panel was beginning.
Madeline Laurano:
I love Jerry. I loved that panel. That was a great panel. But you were the star of the show and you kicked off.
Kyle Lagunas:
Absolutely.
Madeline Laurano:
Jerome was setting the stage. I feel like this has always been the vision. The vision has always been you would be the seat.
Rebecca Carr:
It’s funny, when this moment came to be, he just looked at me- because, I had left, we had a moment when I first left where I was like, “You know what? Seven years, Jerome. I love this space. I need to learn something different about another space so I can understand how to balance what TA brings versus what it doesn’t and to learn from the best of other industries.” When I came back and they put me in this role, he looked at me and he was just like, didn’t say anything. Just on the Zoom, just smiled. He was proud, I think.
Kyle Lagunas:
Yeah, proud papa.
Rebecca Carr:
But I think that’s the case for a lot of the people that sit in leadership roles at SmartRecruiters now. There’s a lot of tenure. Even my chief of staff is eight, nine years of the business, things like that. There’s a lot of people that want to see this through that really want to change this industry. That starts with me. Frankly, we’ve gotten a lot of energy as a business from seeing product become the centerpiece.
Kyle Lagunas:
It’s like revitalized.
Rebecca Carr:
We’re back.
Madeline Laurano:
You’ve been quiet for a while and I feel like you’re back.
Rebecca Carr:
We’re back.
Kyle Lagunas:
Everybody’s holding their breath for a minute.
Madeline Laurano:
Yeah. The nice thing is you’re not cleaning up a bad reputation. You are just a company that went quiet for a few years and now you’re re-entering-
Rebecca Carr:
Yeah, there was some change and transition, but I like to see momentum. I thrive from winning and seeing success and all of that. I think that’s what the future holds for a couple of people on this floor.
Kyle Lagunas:
Yeah. Well you definitely-
Rebecca Carr:
It’s going to be an interesting 18 to 24 months.
Kyle Lagunas:
It really is. You know what? You’re making it really hard for us to be industry agnostic right now, industry neutral, because we love you. We’re rooting for you.
Madeline Laurano:
Yes. We’re all in Boston now.
Kyle Lagunas:
I know.
Rebecca Carr:
I know. I love you guys too. Dinner on, I don’t know, we’ll go on Newbury Street. Do something fun.
Kyle Lagunas:
Yeah, can we never meet in Vegas again.
Okay, that is a wrap, little chickadees. Huge thanks to Rebecca for sharing her story and her vision for shaking up talent acquisition. And big thanks to Madeline to joining us for this special little convo. Honestly, I have a ton of notes from this. Personalized hiring workflows. API first platforms. Making recruiting tools feel as easy as unlocking your phone. Yeah, I’m really into this.
But I’m also really into Rebecca.
Her leadership isn’t just inspiring, it’s exactly what I think the industry needs right now. She’s not here for business as usual, and neither are we at Aptitude. This was a super cool, honestly, just very down-to-earth conversation with somebody that we admire. Rebecca, thank you for spending some time with us today. We will catch you and all of our friends here on the next episode of Transformation Realness. Until then, stay real, stay bold and make all your recruiting tools actually make your life easier. Until next time, this is Kyle signing off. Bye.
